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  #1  
Unread 11th February 2012, 05:02 PM
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God is not human...

For example, in Hosea 11:9 God explicitly tells us, "…for I am God and not a man."

First of all, there is always a reprimand against any human being who claims to be God, or Divine, as we read in
Ezekiel 28:2:Son of man, say unto the prince of Tyrus, Thus saith the Eternal God; Because thine heart is lifted up, and thou hast said, I am God, I sit in the seat of God, in the midst of the seas; yet thou art a man, and not God, though thou set thine heart as the heart of God.
God specifically tells us that if God were a human being, then He would be a liar, as all human beings do lie on occasion. Furthermore, this verse tells us that if God were a human being, He would be in need of repentance because all human beings sin at some point in their lives. Finally, this verse also tells us that if Gd were a human being, then He would make promises, but not keep them:
Numbers 23:19 God is not a man that he should lie; neither the Son of Man that he should repent: hath he said, and shall he not do it? or hath he spoken, and shall he not make it good?
The reason that I started this thread is because of something Adovat said..
Originally Posted by Adovat
The contrast is that "other gods may be capricious, subject to human manipulation through magic, but the Lord is not". (Jewish Study Bible 1985).
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  #2  
Unread 11th February 2012, 07:54 PM
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Originally Posted by visionary View Post
For example, in Hosea 11:9 God explicitly tells us, "…for I am God and not a man."

First of all, there is always a reprimand against any human being who claims to be God, or Divine, as we read in
Ezekiel 28:2:Son of man, say unto the prince of Tyrus, Thus saith the Eternal God; Because thine heart is lifted up, and thou hast said, I am God, I sit in the seat of God, in the midst of the seas; yet thou art a man, and not God, though thou set thine heart as the heart of God.
God specifically tells us that if God were a human being, then He would be a liar, as all human beings do lie on occasion. Furthermore, this verse tells us that if God were a human being, He would be in need of repentance because all human beings sin at some point in their lives. Finally, this verse also tells us that if Gd were a human being, then He would make promises, but not keep them:
Numbers 23:19 God is not a man that he should lie; neither the Son of Man that he should repent: hath he said, and shall he not do it? or hath he spoken, and shall he not make it good?
The reason that I started this thread is because of something Adovat said..
Originally Posted by Adovat
The contrast is that "other gods may be capricious, subject to human manipulation through magic, but the Lord is not". (Jewish Study Bible 1985).
This is an interesting topic, especially noting the characteristics of God as He describes Himself and the characteristics of man as He describes man. But we should not get carried away and try to read too much into what He said.
  • It is true that He is God.
  • It is true that He is a Spirit.
  • It is true that He is not a man that He should lie.
  • It is true that He judges those that would hold themselves up as God.
This does not mean that He cannot place His Spirit into a created being, thereby making a man that acts in all accordance to the righteousness of God.

The quote from the Jewish Study Bible is bizarre. I don't understand what is being said because every premise stated is false. There are no 'other gods' so;
  1. 'other gods' can't be capricious because they don't exist,
  2. there is no such thing as magic because it too doesn't exist,
  3. 'other gods' can't be manipulated because they don't exist,
  4. 'other gods' cannot in any way be compared or contrasted to Yah because (wait for it) He is the Self-Existent One and 'other gods' don't exist.
There is however, a way to manipulate God. Engage in a personal relationship with Him on His terms.
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While scripture is inspired, its understanding is most often not. The congregation has fallen victim to the greedy and uninspired. Context has fallen victim to ignorance and apathy. Both have been corrupted by a desperate adherence to the traditions of man and the agendas of the reprobate mind.




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  #3  
Unread 11th February 2012, 10:44 PM
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I think Hashem speaks of "gods" because in the world back then, every nation or tribe had their own set of "gods." To the people they were real and they were territorial. I think that's one reason that Hashem was constantly telling His people that He would go with them. He was the True Real Alive God of the Whole Universe. All these other gods could not have journeyed with them. They would have had to change gods as they moved around for "their god" to be effective for them. For me, that perfectly explains the title "King of Kings and Lord of Lords." That never made any sense to me until I realized the truth behind the teritorialness of all those other false gods.
And as we have already discussed, God deals with people according to the light that they have in them at that point and he grows them up into His truth.
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  #4  
Unread 11th February 2012, 11:12 PM
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One of the things that stuck out to me was the fact that one of the main reasons Jews reject Yeshua is because He declared He was God in the flesh, I AM. Blasphemy was what they saw. Not that I blame them, for today if any one declares that they are God, I would also seriously question it. Yet the text that Adovat brought forth was that the very verses that they bring forth to show that God is not man, is by their own study bible, showing that it is not a literal statement but a comparative statement.
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  #5  
Unread 12th February 2012, 12:17 AM
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Originally Posted by visionary View Post
One of the things that stuck out to me was the fact that one of the main reasons Jews reject Yeshua is because He declared He was God in the flesh, I AM. Blasphemy was what they saw. Not that I blame them, for today if any one declares that they are God, I would also seriously question it. Yet the text that Adovat brought forth was that the very verses that they bring forth to show that God is not man, is by their own study bible, showing that it is not a literal statement but a comparative statement.
Yes, I understand their desire to not worship false gods. And I also think that they see Christians worshipping Yeshua as God and also somehow managing to separate him from being God. It's very confusing, truly it is. If I try to overthink it I too get confused.
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  #6  
Unread 12th February 2012, 01:54 AM
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Originally Posted by talmidim View Post
This is an interesting topic, especially noting the characteristics of God as He describes Himself and the characteristics of man as He describes man. But we should not get carried away and try to read too much into what He said.
  • It is true that He is God.
  • It is true that He is a Spirit.
  • It is true that He is not a man that He should lie.
  • It is true that He judges those that would hold themselves up as God.
This does not mean that He cannot place His Spirit into a created being, thereby making a man that acts in all accordance to the righteousness of God.




The quote from the Jewish Study Bible is bizarre. I don't understand what is being said because every premise stated is false. There are no 'other gods' so;
  1. 'other gods' can't be capricious because they don't exist,
  2. there is no such thing as magic because it too doesn't exist,
  3. 'other gods' can't be manipulated because they don't exist,
  4. 'other gods' cannot in any way be compared or contrasted to Yah because (wait for it) He is the Self-Existent One and 'other gods' don't exist.
There is however, a way to manipulate God. Engage in a personal relationship with Him on His terms.
Originally Posted by visionary View Post
One of the things that stuck out to me was the fact that one of the main reasons Jews reject Yeshua is because He declared He was God in the flesh, I AM. Blasphemy was what they saw. Not that I blame them, for today if any one declares that they are God, I would also seriously question it. Yet the text that Adovat brought forth was that the very verses that they bring forth to show that God is not man, is by their own study bible, showing that it is not a literal statement but a comparative statement.
Yeshua was indeed God made man, God in the flesh, and not created as Adam was because Yeshua was in the beginning with God. It was important that Yeshua be part man because He needed to overcome what man could not yet He needed to be vulnerable to temptation as man is; to experience what we experience and rise above it, victorious.
God said through Isaiah that the hearts of the Jews would be hardened against Yeshua. "Be ever hearing, but never understanding; be ever seeing, but never perceiving. Make the heart of this people calloused, make their ears dull and close their eyes." Reading further in Isaiah, one has to wonder if God has now lifted that and what we have now is simply people choosing not to believe or falling prey to a legacy of misleading, which Yeshua pointed out. Isaiah 6:8-13.

Last edited by Jerushabelle; 12th February 2012 at 02:08 AM.
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  #7  
Unread 12th February 2012, 02:39 AM
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Originally Posted by yedida View Post
I think Hashem speaks of "gods" because in the world back then, every nation or tribe had their own set of "gods." To the people they were real and they were territorial. I think that's one reason that Hashem was constantly telling His people that He would go with them. He was the True Real Alive God of the Whole Universe. All these other gods could not have journeyed with them. They would have had to change gods as they moved around for "their god" to be effective for them. For me, that perfectly explains the title "King of Kings and Lord of Lords." That never made any sense to me until I realized the truth behind the teritorialness of all those other false gods.
And as we have already discussed, God deals with people according to the light that they have in them at that point and he grows them up into His truth.
That is the obvious logic of the JSB's commentary. As we saw with battle between Elijah and the god of water - Ba'al - when Elijah doused the bull with lots and lots of water to prove that his G_d was far better than Ba'al and all the water added to the sacrifice could not stop the real G_d from showing his mighty power. As it says, all the water was consumed in the fire. There were great battles going on against the false G_ds.

Whether we like it or not, even today, people have other gods!

Last edited by Avodat; 12th February 2012 at 03:11 AM.
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  #8  
Unread 12th February 2012, 08:36 AM
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"Behold, the days come, saith the LORD, that I will raise unto David a Righteous Branch, and a King shall execute judgment and justice in the earth. In His days Judah shall be saved, and Israel shall dwell safely: and this is His Name whereby He shall be called, YHWH Tsidkenu~ THE LORD OUR RIGHTEOUSNESS." (Jeremiah 23:5-6)

The Jewish Sages tell us of Jeremiah 23 that G-d gives the Messiah His very own Name. As Messianic's we believe the King Messiah is Y'shua, the Righteous Branch. The Scriptures go on to tell us in John 1:1-14 that Y'shua the Word is G-d Who became flesh and dwelt among us. Y'shua Himself declares His Messiahship and that He and G-d the Father are One in John 10.
Is G-d the Father a man? No of course not. Is Y'shua, G-d the Son a man? YES! He is 100% Man & He is 100% G-d! This is the Hypostatic Union.
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