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12th December 2003, 03:08 PM
|  | <font color="#880000" ></font>The sum of everything = zero
  
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What exactly are emotions and mind?
Are they the product of a complex and intricate set of electrochemical reactions, or is there something more intangible (i.e. mystical or spiritual) about the human mind and emotions?
I contend that it is in fact the result of physical processes. However that not to say " it is all a bunch of chemical reactions". That would be like saying the Mona Lisa is nothing but of brush strokes, or that the most sophisticated computer program in the world is nothing but a bunch of ones and zeros. THe product is greater then the sum of its parts. in other words.
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"We’ve been attacked by the intelligent, educated segment of the culture," Pastor Ray Mummert speaking out against teaching evolution in Pennsylvania schools
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12th December 2003, 03:50 PM
|  | Prism Ranger
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Reps: 382 (power: 0) | | | I hold that it is the product of electrochemical reactions, but then as a person who does not believe in anything mystical or spiritual I have little choice.
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Greatest Hovind quote of all time, as voted for by members of CF:
"Teaching the pagan religion of evolutionism is a waste of valuable class time and textbook space. It is also one of the reasons American kids don't test as well in science as kids in other parts of the world." |
12th December 2003, 04:00 PM
| | Veteran
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Reps: 207 (power: 0) | | Originally Posted by PhantomLlama I hold that it is the product of electrochemical reactions, but then as a person who does not believe in anything mystical or spiritual I have little choice.
Yes. And you would also have to concede that the thoughts and emotions that you experience and the actions that you 'choose' are not caused or willed by you. They happen to you.
IOW, when you are exposed to a stimulus, that would cause a series of events in the brain that would lead to the experience of a thought and some series of determined reactions. Thus, if we assume a purely physical existence, consciousness and willpower are not caused by the brain, they simply happen to the brain...with no degree of self control whatsoever.
This leads us to this strange conclusion: The knowledge that the world has accumulated today simply 'happened' to us. We had no part in making it happen at all.
Last edited by Mike Flynn; 12th December 2003 at 04:02 PM.
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12th December 2003, 04:15 PM
|  | Eating Heart
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But the Mona Lisa is only brushstrokes on paper (or some type of canvas).
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"If we begin with certainties, we shall end in doubts; if we begin with doubts, and are patient, we shall end in certainties."
-Marcus Aurelius |
12th December 2003, 04:34 PM
| | Prism Ranger
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Reps: 382 (power: 0) | | Originally Posted by Mike Flynn Yes. And you would also have to concede that the thoughts and emotions that you experience and the actions that you 'choose' are not caused or willed by you. They happen to you.
IOW, when you are exposed to a stimulus, that would cause a series of events in the brain that would lead to the experience of a thought and some series of determined reactions. Thus, if we assume a purely physical existence, consciousness and willpower are not caused by the brain, they simply happen to the brain...with no degree of self control whatsoever.
This leads us to this strange conclusion: The knowledge that the world has accumulated today simply 'happened' to us. We had no part in making it happen at all.
True. I have not yet been able to think of an alternative to this conclusion. It is rather unpalatable, but I do not know of any other explanation that I don't disagree with for other reasons.
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Greatest Hovind quote of all time, as voted for by members of CF:
"Teaching the pagan religion of evolutionism is a waste of valuable class time and textbook space. It is also one of the reasons American kids don't test as well in science as kids in other parts of the world." |
12th December 2003, 05:24 PM
|  | Senior Veteran
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| | Join Date: 27th July 2003 Location: Apopka, Florida
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Reps: 2,759 (power: 0) | | | Once a being reaches a certain level of awareness or intelligence then they can see meaning in such things as just a bunch of brush strokes. On their own each stroke is not worth mentioning. However when you view the entire image, see all the subtleties, the perfect use of shading, how the brush moved on the canvas, etc. then it becomes art.
Much like we view a series of well oriented and executed brushstrokes as art, so to is a series of well executed electrical and chemical signals called emotion. It's hard to deny the effects of our physical mind on our emotional mind, especially when we can be so easily manipulated thru drugs.
Although it's not entirely fatalism. More like free will operating within it's own natural bounds. |
13th December 2003, 01:42 AM
| | <font color="#880000" ></font>The sum of everything = zero
| | Join Date: 5th April 2002
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Reps: 143,091 (power: 154) | | | Just look at what a little brain damage can do to a persons' intellect, or emotional state, or behaviour. It does not take much to see that mind is a product of brain structure.
As far a choices go. Put two identical oranges in front of you. Pick one to eat and the other to give to your friend. Nothing predetermined by brain chemistry there. An actual choice was made by an indiviual. Nothing in the make up of your brain made you choose the left orange for yourself.
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"We’ve been attacked by the intelligent, educated segment of the culture," Pastor Ray Mummert speaking out against teaching evolution in Pennsylvania schools
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13th December 2003, 01:50 AM
| | I Love Big Brother
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Reps: 10 (power: 0) | | Originally Posted by Late_Cretaceous Just look at what a little brain damage can do to a persons' intellect, or emotional state, or behaviour. It does not take much to see that mind is a product of brain structure.
As far a choices go. Put two identical oranges in front of you. Pick one to eat and the other to give to your friend. Nothing predetermined by brain chemistry there. An actual choice was made by an indiviual. Nothing in the make up of your brain made you choose the left orange for yourself.
so which bit of your brain made that choice? |
13th December 2003, 03:29 AM
|  | Liberated from SinComplex
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Reps: 816 (power: 0) | | | The effects of Lobotamy answers that question for for me. If emotions were spiritual then they operate within physical boundries of the brain.
My past experience with mind-altering drugs tells me all sense of Reality and emotions are products of the physical brain . the stories I could tell..but it would break the rules.
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csbsju.edu/uspp/ExecutiveSummaries/Bush.htmlpersonality
personality profile of pre-prez Bush predicted the current mess we find ourselves in
Eccl. 10:19: Bread is made for laughter, and wine gladdens life, and money answers everything. |
13th December 2003, 06:25 AM
|  | Übermensch
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Reps: 5,398 (power: 17) | | Originally Posted by Late_Cretaceous Just look at what a little brain damage can do to a persons' intellect, or emotional state, or behaviour. It does not take much to see that mind is a product of brain structure.
As far a choices go. Put two identical oranges in front of you. Pick one to eat and the other to give to your friend. Nothing predetermined by brain chemistry there. An actual choice was made by an indiviual. Nothing in the make up of your brain made you choose the left orange for yourself.
As Mike Flynn explained, the thought process that made you choose the left orange, was a brain chemistry that happened to the brain.
But if you mean to say that, not predetermined as if the brain chemicals didn't see the choice comming, then the brain chemicals pretty much don't see anything comming. Brain chemicals react to outside stimuli, so nothing is predetermined by brain chemistry.
But one thing though, if we really don't have choice.
How is it that we can come up with random numbers ourselves?
Yet, it seems almost impossible to come up with a real random number generator algorithm or make a computer choose (but in the future it might be possible through AI). I mean, are random numbers a form of choice?
Hmm, now that I think about it, choosing the left orange could be viewed as an action of randomness too...
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Doubt is a powerful tool, it helps filter out lies. You can say that doubt is related to honesty, yet, religious followers will never doubt their beliefs.
The fact that God did not care to inspire mankind in the translation of his scriptures makes me doubt if he would care to inspire his scriptures in the first place
Being punished for holding an opinion that Jesus may not be God is as wacky as being punished for not having green as our favorite color. | | |
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