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29th April 2012, 09:59 AM
|  | he-man
   
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Reps: 100,408,632,182,873,584 (power: 100,408,632,182,880) | | Originally Posted by Radagast  From the LXX, the Greek translation of the OT made around 200 BC, and which was used in Jesus' time. This is what gets quoted in Acts 7:36 and Hebrews 11:29, and so those verses use the word " red" (ἐρυθρός, from which we get our modern word "erythrocyte" = "red blood cell").
Where did your translation of Ex 15:4 come from? Because I'm pretty sure Anglo-Norman French has nothing to do with the meaning of the Hebrew word, and what you say conflicts with the dictionary definition. RUSH
 Huh? Red blood cell? The Hebrew word for red is להאדים not אדומה
Red blood cell דורית דם אדומה
I think the exegesis is the rapid rising of the sea rather than the RED sea. Whereas reed is in Hebrew לשונית
Concise Oxford English Dictionary
Exo 15:4 Pharaoh's chariots and his host hath he cast into the sea: his chosen captains also are drowned in the rush of the sea. nm. reed, rush סוף or flush, flood, sudden flow of water
ME: from an Anglo-Norman Fr. var. of OFr. ruser 'drive back', an early sense of the word in Engl. (see ruse) 'drive back', perh. based on L. rursus 'backwards'.
ερυθραν H122 אדם 'âdôm aw-dome' Adam, first man H119 âdam To show blood
The Hebrew word for red is להאדים become red, redden, blush, flush: flood, sudden flow of water ME (in the sense 'move rapidly, spring or fly up'): symbolic
© Oxford University Press, 2004
(by ellipsis of H3220) H3220 ים yâm From an unused root meaning to roar; a sea (as breaking in noisy surf) or large body of water; specifically (with the article) the Mediterranean; sometimes a large river, or an artificial basin; locally, the west, or (rarely) the south: - sea (X -faring man, [-shore]), south, west (-ern, side, -ward).
__________________ 1Ch 25:5 all these were sons of Heman the king’s seer in the words of God, to exalt his power;Hozeh ("seer") also means "to see" or "to perceive," but is also used in reference to musicians. It is also used to describe a counselor or an advisor to a king. The Hebrew does not necessarily indicate that the person is a prophet, but rather an advisor—someone who has wisdom.
It means "one who has insight." Hence, the essential meaning in Greek is "interpreter."
Last edited by he-man; 29th April 2012 at 12:02 PM.
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29th April 2012, 11:53 AM
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Reps: 320,611,035,092,807,552 (power: 320,611,035,092,823) | | Originally Posted by he-man Huh? Red blood cell?
I'll try to make this simple: Acts 7:36 and Hebrews 11:29 use the word ἐρυθρός which means "red."
And if you want to translate the Hebrew by "rush," it's the "rush" that means "reed," not the other "rush." See the Hebrew dictionary definition I linked to.
The Concise Oxford English Dictionary cannot tell you about the meaning of Hebrew words.
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Lord, make me an instrument of your peace on this forum. Where there is hatred, grant that I may sow love; where there is injury, pardon; where there is discord, unity; where there is doubt, faith; where there is error, Your truth and not my personal opinion; where there is despair, hope; where there is sadness, joy; where there is darkness, light. O, Divine Master, grant that I may not so much seek to be consoled by people here as to console them; to be understood by them, as to understand them; to be loved by them, as to love them: For it is in giving that we receive; it is in pardoning that we are pardoned; and it is in dying that we are born to eternal life. |
29th April 2012, 12:07 PM
| | he-man
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Reps: 100,408,632,182,873,584 (power: 100,408,632,182,880) | | Originally Posted by Radagast I'll try to make this simple: Acts 7:36 and Hebrews 11:29 use the word ἐρυθρός which means "red."
And if you want to translate the Hebrew by "rush," it's the "rush" that means "reed," not the other "rush." See the Hebrew dictionary definition I linked to.
The Concise Oxford English Dictionary cannot tell you about the meaning of Hebrew words.
Huh???
The Hebrew word for red is not אדם it is להאדים become red, redden, blush, flush: flood, sudden flow of water ME (in the sense 'move rapidly, spring or fly up'): symbolic
© Oxford University Press, 2004
RUSH as reed is not the only definition for the word. Where do you think we get the translations if not from Hebrew into English? Not to mention the fact that the Hebrew word your dictionary is incorrectly trying to define is אדם 'âdôm aw-dome' Adam, first man from H119 âdam To show blood
Huh? Red blood cell? The Hebrew word for red is להאדים not אדומה
Red blood cell דורית דם אדומה
I think the exegesis is the rapid rising of the sea rather than the RED sea. Whereas reed is in Hebrew לשונית
Concise Oxford English Dictionary
Exo 15:4 Pharaoh's chariots and his host hath he cast into the sea: his chosen captains also are drowned in the rush of the sea. nm. reed, rush סוף or flush, flood, sudden flow of water
ME: from an Anglo-Norman Fr. var. of OFr. ruser 'drive back', an early sense of the word in Engl. (see ruse) 'drive back', perh. based on L. rursus 'backwards'.
The equivalent of ερυθραν according to yours is H122 אדם 'âdôm aw-dome' Adam, first man H119 âdam To show blood
__________________ 1Ch 25:5 all these were sons of Heman the king’s seer in the words of God, to exalt his power;Hozeh ("seer") also means "to see" or "to perceive," but is also used in reference to musicians. It is also used to describe a counselor or an advisor to a king. The Hebrew does not necessarily indicate that the person is a prophet, but rather an advisor—someone who has wisdom.
It means "one who has insight." Hence, the essential meaning in Greek is "interpreter."
Last edited by he-man; 29th April 2012 at 12:24 PM.
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30th April 2012, 05:37 AM
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Reps: 320,611,035,092,807,552 (power: 320,611,035,092,823) | | Originally Posted by Radagast I'll try to make this simple: Acts 7:36 and Hebrews 11:29 use the word ἐρυθρός which means "red."
... because Acts and Hebrews, like the rest of the NT, were written in Greek.
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Lord, make me an instrument of your peace on this forum. Where there is hatred, grant that I may sow love; where there is injury, pardon; where there is discord, unity; where there is doubt, faith; where there is error, Your truth and not my personal opinion; where there is despair, hope; where there is sadness, joy; where there is darkness, light. O, Divine Master, grant that I may not so much seek to be consoled by people here as to console them; to be understood by them, as to understand them; to be loved by them, as to love them: For it is in giving that we receive; it is in pardoning that we are pardoned; and it is in dying that we are born to eternal life. |
26th September 2012, 10:51 AM
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Reps: 10 (power: 0) | | | Jeff Benner at ancient-hebrew.org relates the meaning of yam suf to the word sof, meaning "edge or limit", "lip" (as being the edge of the mouth), and "reeds" (since reeds grow on the edges of a marsh). The meaning of lips and the mouth co-incide well with what happened to the Egyptians there. They were "swallowed" in the sea. How the word got translated "red" in the LXX isn't clear. Lips and the inside of the mouth are red, maybe? |
26th September 2012, 02:09 PM
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But you shouldn't take my word for it.
You should study it and decide for yourself.
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26th September 2012, 08:16 PM
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Reps: 320,611,035,092,807,552 (power: 320,611,035,092,823) | | Originally Posted by BigBoof1959 How the word got translated "red" in the LXX isn't clear.
Here's a thought. Maybe Jews living 2200 years ago actually knew Biblical Hebrew well enough to translate it correctly?
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Lord, make me an instrument of your peace on this forum. Where there is hatred, grant that I may sow love; where there is injury, pardon; where there is discord, unity; where there is doubt, faith; where there is error, Your truth and not my personal opinion; where there is despair, hope; where there is sadness, joy; where there is darkness, light. O, Divine Master, grant that I may not so much seek to be consoled by people here as to console them; to be understood by them, as to understand them; to be loved by them, as to love them: For it is in giving that we receive; it is in pardoning that we are pardoned; and it is in dying that we are born to eternal life. |
28th September 2012, 08:53 AM
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Reps: 10 (power: 0) | | | Exodus 2:3 & 2:5 seem to imply that the basket or 'tevah' that Moses was placed in was "among" the "suf" along the Nile. If the Hebrews 2000 years ago understood the word "suf" to be a shade of red, (and hence translated it with eruthros in the LXX) you would think that Exodus 2:3 would say that the basket containing Moses was put "on" the "suf" (denoting red water?), and not "among" the "suf". Who knows, maybe there was a species of reed that was also "red" in color? Isaiah 19:6 and Jonah 2:5 make it hard to believe that the only meaning of "suf" is the color red. |
28th September 2012, 09:03 AM
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Reps: 320,611,035,092,807,552 (power: 320,611,035,092,823) | | Originally Posted by BigBoof1959 ... Isaiah 19:6 and Jonah 2:5 make it hard to believe that the only meaning of "suf" is the color red.
I don't believe anyone suggested that.
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Lord, make me an instrument of your peace on this forum. Where there is hatred, grant that I may sow love; where there is injury, pardon; where there is discord, unity; where there is doubt, faith; where there is error, Your truth and not my personal opinion; where there is despair, hope; where there is sadness, joy; where there is darkness, light. O, Divine Master, grant that I may not so much seek to be consoled by people here as to console them; to be understood by them, as to understand them; to be loved by them, as to love them: For it is in giving that we receive; it is in pardoning that we are pardoned; and it is in dying that we are born to eternal life. | | |
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