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  #21  
Old 12th January 2012, 08:21 PM
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Originally Posted by MariaRegina View Post
Wow! No wonder McCain backs Romney.

Two chums being supported by Monsanto.
My mistake; Monsanto is one of his former clients.

Which is similar.
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  #22  
Old 12th January 2012, 08:24 PM
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Originally Posted by Thekla View Post
My mistake; Monsanto is one of his former clients.

Which is similar.
Who is he?

Is Monsanto one of McCain's former clients, or Romney's?
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  #23  
Old 12th January 2012, 08:36 PM
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Originally Posted by MariaRegina View Post
Who is he?

Is Monsanto one of McCain's former clients, or Romney's?
Romney's
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  #24  
Old 12th January 2012, 08:49 PM
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tThought this might be of interest to some, especially given the claims by companies like Monsanto that their methods are the only way we can feed our population.

Organic Can Feed the World
"We all have things that drive us crazy," wrote Steve Kopperud in a blog post this fall for Brownfield, an organization that disseminates agricultural news online and through radio broadcasts. Kopperud, who is a lobbyist for agribusiness interests in Washington, D.C., then got downright personal: "Firmly ensconced at the top of my list are people who consider themselves experts on an issue when judging by what they say and do, they're sitting high in an ivory tower somewhere contemplating only the 'wouldn't-it-be-nice' aspects."
At the top of that heap, Kopperud put Michael Pollan and Marion Nestle, a contributor to Atlantic Life and the author of Food Politics, the title of both her most well-known book and her daily blog.
"There's a huge chunk of reality missing from Dr. Nestle's academic approach to life," Kopperud wrote. "The missing bit is, quite simply, the answer to the following question: How do you feed seven billion people today and nine billion by 2040 through organic, natural, and local food production?" He then answers his own question. "You can't."
What is notably lacking in the "conventional" versus organic debate are studies backing up the claim that organic can't feed the world's growing population.
As a journalist who takes issues surrounding food production seriously, I too have things that drive me crazy.
At the top of my list are agribusiness advocates such as Kopperud (and, more recently, Steve Sexton of Freakonomics) who dismiss well-thought-out concerns about today's dysfunctional food production system with the old saw that organic farming can't save the world. They persist in repeating this as an irrefutable fact, even as one scientific study after another concludes the exact opposite: not only that organic can indeed feed nine billion human beings but that it is the only hope we have of doing so...
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  #25  
Old 13th January 2012, 12:41 AM
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Thanks, MJK

There was a woman in my church that kept asking, "How can we feed the masses?"

She wanted to eat organics but wanted to feed the masses the cheap adulterated food produced by Monsanto and other processed food manufacturers. This adulterated food is shunned in Europe, so Monsanto is about to do an end run and force GMO processed food on the entire world.

If you have ever been in any hospital recently, you know exactly what I am talking about. There are very few hospitals with chefs as most serve highly processed pre-packaged food that is simply reheated and served. In Las Vegas at Centennial Hospital, a patient was served a very tiny overcooked breast of chicken. When she tried to cut it, it was very hard to cut. When she tried to chew it, she gagged. It was very tough and tasted like cardboard. This is the kind of fare that Monsanto, Dole, and ConAgra want to force on us through this WTO CODEX bills. Are you ready for it?

Anyone know how to spell Monopoly?

Last edited by MariaRegina; 13th January 2012 at 12:49 AM.
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  #26  
Old 13th January 2012, 12:38 PM
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Originally Posted by MariaRegina View Post
Thanks, MJK

There was a woman in my church that kept asking, "How can we feed the masses?"

She wanted to eat organics but wanted to feed the masses the cheap adulterated food produced by Monsanto and other processed food manufacturers. This adulterated food is shunned in Europe, so Monsanto is about to do an end run and force GMO processed food on the entire world.

If you have ever been in any hospital recently, you know exactly what I am talking about. There are very few hospitals with chefs as most serve highly processed pre-packaged food that is simply reheated and served. In Las Vegas at Centennial Hospital, a patient was served a very tiny overcooked breast of chicken. When she tried to cut it, it was very hard to cut. When she tried to chew it, she gagged. It was very tough and tasted like cardboard. This is the kind of fare that Monsanto, Dole, and ConAgra want to force on us through this WTO CODEX bills. Are you ready for it?

Anyone know how to spell Monopoly?
A big trend in farming is to have these big agribusinesses buy up all the farmland in a particular area, and then hire the former farm-owners to manage the farms for them. It's precisely the sort of economic feudalism that Belloc said 100 years ago was the logical outcome of capitalism. That's why there is a big push toward that kind of agriculture, not because it is supports the common good in any way or is good for the land. It is good for big companies that want big profits in the next quarter, and they can crush everyone else because of their size, vertical integration, and political clout.

It is exactly the kind of thing that should be pointed out in that other thread on libertarianism - a system where profit is the motive and usury is rampant can never prosper in any human way, as it is based on one of the seven deadly sins and an unnatural monetary system.
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  #27  
Old 13th January 2012, 01:01 PM
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Originally Posted by MKJ View Post
A big trend in farming is to have these big agribusinesses buy up all the farmland in a particular area, and then hire the former farm-owners to manage the farms for them. It's precisely the sort of economic feudalism that Belloc said 100 years ago was the logical outcome of capitalism. That's why there is a big push toward that kind of agriculture, not because it is supports the common good in any way or is good for the land. It is good for big companies that want big profits in the next quarter, and they can crush everyone else because of their size, vertical integration, and political clout.

It is exactly the kind of thing that should be pointed out in that other thread on libertarianism - a system where profit is the motive and usury is rampant can never prosper in any human way, as it is based on one of the seven deadly sins and an unnatural monetary system.
The issue isn't that they have bought up the farm land. The issue is what lead to that in the first place. That issue is corrupt politicians who are easily bought and who pass unjust laws in favor of corporations who happen to have the money to buy them out. Everyone with power is going to want more power. Heads of major businesses are no different. If those laws favoring the large businesses weren't in effect, then the farmers wouldn't be in a position to need to sell their land in the first place.

Almost every kid is going to ask to have cake for supper. It is the responsibility of a parent to say no, no matter how much the kid begs. Corporations are the same way with Congress. They're going to ask for laws to make them more profitable. It is Congress' responsibility to say no and continue to enact just laws. But the politicians are corrupt and easily bought, and they didn't say no. Instead, they said, "Sure, have cake for supper. And here's some candy, and fudge, and ice cream..."

When the government is corrupt, it doesn't matter what economic system is in place. That's why we are supposed to have a severely limited federal government. We cede more power to the federal government, and they respond by taking more power and giving it to their friends. But it's not just the U.S. The world is, and has been, moving in a very particular direction for some time now. As adamant as I am about my libertarian beliefs (severely limit the power of those in power), I know that I'm fighting a losing battle. As technology improves and gives us a more comfortable quality of life, it also serves to make domination that much more accessible to those who seek it out.
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  #28  
Old 13th January 2012, 01:06 PM
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Originally Posted by MKJ View Post
A big trend in farming is to have these big agribusinesses buy up all the farmland in a particular area, and then hire the former farm-owners to manage the farms for them. It's precisely the sort of economic feudalism that Belloc said 100 years ago was the logical outcome of capitalism. That's why there is a big push toward that kind of agriculture, not because it is supports the common good in any way or is good for the land. It is good for big companies that want big profits in the next quarter, and they can crush everyone else because of their size, vertical integration, and political clout.

It is exactly the kind of thing that should be pointed out in that other thread on libertarianism - a system where profit is the motive and usury is rampant can never prosper in any human way, as it is based on one of the seven deadly sins and an unnatural monetary system.
Indeed, Monsanto's numerous (specious - some for owning seed sorters) lawsuits against small farmers has had the effect of driving people into bankruptcy before the case comes to trial. A pretty simple strategy to gain a monopoly over food production.

In a system entirely dependent on the judicial system, the powerful will always prevail, even when they are wrong.

Thus, imo, Libertarianism is social Darwinism.
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Old 13th January 2012, 01:36 PM
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Originally Posted by knee-v View Post
The issue isn't that they have bought up the farm land. The issue is what lead to that in the first place. That issue is corrupt politicians who are easily bought and who pass unjust laws in favor of corporations who happen to have the money to buy them out. Everyone with power is going to want more power. Heads of major businesses are no different. If those laws favoring the large businesses weren't in effect, then the farmers wouldn't be in a position to need to sell their land in the first place.

Almost every kid is going to ask to have cake for supper. It is the responsibility of a parent to say no, no matter how much the kid begs. Corporations are the same way with Congress. They're going to ask for laws to make them more profitable. It is Congress' responsibility to say no and continue to enact just laws. But the politicians are corrupt and easily bought, and they didn't say no. Instead, they said, "Sure, have cake for supper. And here's some candy, and fudge, and ice cream..."

When the government is corrupt, it doesn't matter what economic system is in place. That's why we are supposed to have a severely limited federal government. We cede more power to the federal government, and they respond by taking more power and giving it to their friends. But it's not just the U.S. The world is, and has been, moving in a very particular direction for some time now. As adamant as I am about my libertarian beliefs (severely limit the power of those in power), I know that I'm fighting a losing battle. As technology improves and gives us a more comfortable quality of life, it also serves to make domination that much more accessible to those who seek it out.
How will a severely limited federal government make any difference ?
How will it restrain the power of those with power ?
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  #30  
Old 13th January 2012, 01:46 PM
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Originally Posted by Thekla View Post
How will a severely limited federal government make any difference ?
How will it restrain the power of those with power ?
By "limited" I mean that they don't have very much power to begin with. Our constitution is set up so that power is spread out all over the place. The Federal Government only has very specific powers that it can act on, and those are spread out over three branches. And the rest of the powers are given to all the individual states and the people of those states. If they don't have very much power, then there's not a whole lot that they can do to us. But we've given them all the power they want, and now they're unstoppable.

For example, the Federal Government doesn't have the authority of regulate farming and agriculture. Since it's not specifically spelled out as a power of any branch of the federal government, then, according to the 10th amendment, farming and agriculture is an issue to be handled on the state level (thus the U.S. Department of Agriculture is an unconstitutional agency). If we were to keep the federal government in check and prevent them from meddling in those types of affairs, groups like Monsanto wouldn't have a leg to stand on, as they wouldn't be able to get federal legislation that favors their operations.

But we've failed to keep in check those in power.
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