Why We Should not Pray to the Saints

Originally Posted by CrusadersSword

To say we should not ask our brethren in heaven to pray for us is just as wrong as saying we should not ask our brethren on earth to pray for us. They are just at another stage in the journey than we are.

... except, how to we know that the undead in purgatory or heaven know of our request and are/did pray for us? How can they counsel us, minister to us, support us, correct us? The living on earth can do all those things. IMO, while the undead in purgatory or heaven MAY know of our request and MAY pray for us - that's all we have. The possibility that they can and do. I'd have FAR MORE if I asked you to pray for me.






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RCC: "I teach it, therefore it's true."
Protestant: "It's true, therefore I teach it."






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Two places, Saints and angels, mentioned earlier in this thread.

Um, because the Bible says in multiple places that they can.

You seem to have an awfully low opinion of other Christians. Do you often find people who refuse to pray for you when you ask?

By God's will and grace.

This conversation will make more sense to you when you realize we aren't talking about "undead".

But there ought not be. We pray to God and He sends His angels as ministering spirits. The angels of Scripture always refused prayer and worship.

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Cursed be the man that trusts in man, and makes flesh his arm, and whose heart departs from the LORD. Jer. 17:5

He hath shown thee, O man, what is good: and what doth the LORD require of thee, but to do justly, and to love mercy, and to walk humbly with thy God? Micah 6:8

The unexamined life is not worth living. Socrates

Everything should be made as simple as possible, but not simpler. Albert Einstein

When prayer is also worship, this is true.

But when prayer is "ask", then to answer is not always refused - as when Mary asked something of Gabriel, and the question was answered.

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What you have done here is a very common practice. When we stay in Scripture, we tend to be sound. When we leave it and reason on our own (apart from Scripture; I am not advocating mindlessness) that is when we get into trouble. All advocation of prayer is to the living. No Scripture advocates prayers to the dead. When we argue from silence, we are treading in dangerous waters.

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Cursed be the man that trusts in man, and makes flesh his arm, and whose heart departs from the LORD. Jer. 17:5

He hath shown thee, O man, what is good: and what doth the LORD require of thee, but to do justly, and to love mercy, and to walk humbly with thy God? Micah 6:8

The unexamined life is not worth living. Socrates

Everything should be made as simple as possible, but not simpler. Albert Einstein

Am not sure how it is speaking from silence to say scripture shows Jesus carrying on with those from beyond, people carrying on with both angels and conclude from that there is something wrong with anyone carrying on with either. In addition the Bible shows both angels and people in Heaven "offering" prayers of others to God. To me the only reasonable explanation for those individuals to have the prayers of others is that others "carried on" with them.

But a point is raised that if all we have is scripture alone, then it is indeed up to the individual to say what they will or will not believe, we become ultimately our own authority of what the Good Book says. Some of us have guidance we follow outside of scripture and for me at least that is a more reliable and steady authority than myself.

In my own experience I found myself unreliable in maintaining a firm foundation of what scriptures mean. In my youth it was what I had been taught as a child. As a young adult it hinged on reading or hearing the teachings of others and then over short or longer periods reasoning myself into various alternative understandings of scripture. Even then my gut was still always telling me how do I know this or that teaching is the correct one, especially when some positions are so opposite.

Am personally glad to no longer have those concerns. But it is indeed a scary thing to have no external authority and then wander outside what one believes scripture teaches.

In what way would "praying to saints" be different to the practice of submitting "prayer requests" to your local congregation.

In both cases it would seem that you were asking fellow believers to pray for you or for someone/something close to your heart.

Originally Posted by nhoj

In what way would "praying to saints" be different to the practice of submitting "prayer requests" to your local congregation.

In both cases it would seem that you were asking fellow believers to pray for you or for someone/something close to your heart.

The same

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That's pretty scarey. I've understood the Catholic point of view twice in the space of a few days.

And last week I just couldn't accept the traditional Protestant commentaries on Matthew 16:18

Lucky for me that I still have decades of bias established