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  #1  
Unread 11th November 2011, 03:47 PM
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What say you?

Take a gander at this article, and please read the comments below in the blog article.

I take issue with many of them about Frederica's POV. The Orthodox Church isn't right because it's older. It's right because it was given and has preserved the Truth.


Frederica Mathewes-Green Doesn’t Quite Bash the Emerging Church

But, I do have to add....what are your thoughts on their problem with the ethnicity of the Orthodox Churches? Does this seem like a valid complaint? To a certain degree, I can agree with it. What do you say?
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Last edited by Dorothea; 11th November 2011 at 03:53 PM.
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  #2  
Unread 11th November 2011, 03:51 PM
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I have to agree with you Dorothea.
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Unread 11th November 2011, 04:01 PM
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It's what I would expect her to say, and what I would expect protestants to respond with.

She's right of course, cutting off the traditions from Tradition is going to end in tradition's death (if it's not too artificial to discuss traditions like that). Perhaps not, as the blog-author thought she meant, in one individual, but in generations their children will not be venerating icons or praying with chotki. Orthodoxy (and it shares this with Roman Catholicism and some Anglicans) looks more at the long run (as one commenter pointed out) and whether the faith will be preserved until the Second Coming.

Her points are completely true, IMO. It's a point many make often in Orthodoxy; one must take the whole and cannot piece together just what one likes, one must be part of the Church to receive the lifeblood of Living Truth for certain throughout all time, one must experience Orthodoxy in its fullness to even understand it.

Having never encountered anything like this before Protestants cannot understand that taking this or that and using it in your spiritual life will probably help you for a while, but will ultimately be cast aside, whether because something newer and more interesting has come along (including newer arguments which change one's position) or because one encounters the spiritual dryness which is used by God to raise us to higher levels of devotion and, not realizing this is part of the Christian Life, they feel the practices are no longer 'helping' them. Protestantism is, at its center, a "pick and choose" faith, so it's no surprise that they should look to Orthodoxy and pick and choose what they like from our menu.
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Unread 11th November 2011, 04:21 PM
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Thanks, Elizabeth.


Originally Posted by Joseph Hazen View Post
It's what I would expect her to say, and what I would expect protestants to respond with.

She's right of course, cutting off the traditions from Tradition is going to end in tradition's death (if it's not too artificial to discuss traditions like that). Perhaps not, as the blog-author thought she meant, in one individual, but in generations their children will not be venerating icons or praying with chotki. Orthodoxy (and it shares this with Roman Catholicism and some Anglicans) looks more at the long run (as one commenter pointed out) and whether the faith will be preserved until the Second Coming.

Her points are completely true, IMO. It's a point many make often in Orthodoxy; one must take the whole and cannot piece together just what one likes, one must be part of the Church to receive the lifeblood of Living Truth for certain throughout all time, one must experience Orthodoxy in its fullness to even understand it.

Having never encountered anything like this before Protestants cannot understand that taking this or that and using it in your spiritual life will probably help you for a while, but will ultimately be cast aside, whether because something newer and more interesting has come along (including newer arguments which change one's position) or because one encounters the spiritual dryness which is used by God to raise us to higher levels of devotion and, not realizing this is part of the Christian Life, they feel the practices are no longer 'helping' them. Protestantism is, at its center, a "pick and choose" faith, so it's no surprise that they should look to Orthodoxy and pick and choose what they like from our menu.
True. It kind of bothered me when they said they take what the like but would never become Orthodox. That would take sacrifice and change, which it sounded like, from reading their comments, they didn't want. They didn't want to give up their own opinions and ideas.

I remember reading something of Carlton's a few years back that said it wasn't about what Church fits what I believe. It's about the Church taking you in and your changing and molding to what it teaches - through Christ.
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  #5  
Unread 11th November 2011, 04:28 PM
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Originally Posted by Dorothea View Post
I remember reading something of Carlton's a few years back that said it wasn't about what Church fits what I believe. It's about the Church taking you in and your changing and molding to what it teaches - through Christ.
Yes. Similarly I recall having a difficult time trying to get a friend to understand once that if we never have difficulty believing in anything we believe in, how likely is it that our beliefs come from us vs. Someone Else?
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  #6  
Unread 11th November 2011, 05:57 PM
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Originally Posted by Joseph Hazen View Post
Yes. Similarly I recall having a difficult time trying to get a friend to understand once that if we never have difficulty believing in anything we believe in, how likely is it that our beliefs come from us vs. Someone Else?
Good points! It seems to me it all revolves around being obedient to God and others. There are some who don't know theyre not being obedient to God in this way, so I'm not saying many people are doing it on purpose.
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Unread 11th November 2011, 07:03 PM
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I don't know Dorothea - are you Orthodox despite not thinking it is true? I don't imagine that is the case - you think it is true, so you subordinate yourself to it.

It sounds like you think though that other people should subordinate themselves to it even when they think it is not true. That is why non-Orthodox don't become Orthodox, whether they are correct or not. They take what they see is true, but they leave what they think is wrong. Which is I suspect very much how most people approach things you didn't think were wholly true.
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Unread 11th November 2011, 09:05 PM
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Originally Posted by MKJ View Post
I don't know Dorothea - are you Orthodox despite not thinking it is true? I don't imagine that is the case - you think it is true, so you subordinate yourself to it.

It sounds like you think though that other people should subordinate themselves to it even when they think it is not true. That is why non-Orthodox don't become Orthodox, whether they are correct or not. They take what they see is true, but they leave what they think is wrong. Which is I suspect very much how most people approach things you didn't think were wholly true.
Sure, it seems that way to me, and you would be right. My background is not of any other Christian faith, and all I did was rediscover Orthodoxy when I was an adult, so I suppose my opinions aren't really good ones.
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Unread 11th November 2011, 11:45 PM
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In the article the person says he wants a mosaic faith? What the heck is a mosaic faith? Something to do with Moses?
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Unread 11th November 2011, 11:59 PM
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Originally Posted by buzuxi02 View Post
In the article the person says he wants a mosaic faith? What the heck is a mosaic faith? Something to do with Moses?
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