Unpardonable sin worries

cedward1 · #21 8th November 2011, 04:03 PM

"if you confess with your mouth, "Jesus is Lord," and believe in your heart that God raised him from the dead, you will be saved."

What is involved in this though? Doesn't believing in one's heart involve more than just mental assent, and confessing Jesus as Lord mean more than just agreeing that He is God? Jesus said we must be born again, which seems to be a spiritual birth whereby we are fundamentally changed. Repentance appears to be key, and on further study seems to be a part of this transformation.

So it's a work of the Holy Spirit, right? You can't be born again on your own. And that's where Piper's theory of blasphemy of the Holy Spirit comes in I suppose, because if you reject the Spirit you can't be born again at all.

I have no idea how to tell for sure if anyone is saved. The best I am hoping for is to reach a point where I am more or less sure that I can be saved.

I'm not trying to be argumentative here, but when these doubts come up it is helpful for me to post them so it isn't just me trying to argue against them on my own. I usually lose when I argue with myself.

anonym00s · #22 10th November 2011, 08:17 PM

Originally Posted by cedward1

"if you confess with your mouth, "Jesus is Lord," and believe in your heart that God raised him from the dead, you will be saved."

What is involved in this though? Doesn't believing in one's heart involve more than just mental assent, and confessing Jesus as Lord mean more than just agreeing that He is God? Jesus said we must be born again, which seems to be a spiritual birth whereby we are fundamentally changed. Repentance appears to be key, and on further study seems to be a part of this transformation.

So it's a work of the Holy Spirit, right? You can't be born again on your own. And that's where Piper's theory of blasphemy of the Holy Spirit comes in I suppose, because if you reject the Spirit you can't be born again at all.

I have no idea how to tell for sure if anyone is saved. The best I am hoping for is to reach a point where I am more or less sure that I can be saved.

I'm not trying to be argumentative here, but when these doubts come up it is helpful for me to post them so it isn't just me trying to argue against them on my own. I usually lose when I argue with myself.

I don't find it argumentative and I welcome your thoughts/doubts so that we can get through them.

On the cross, Jesus died for all mankind's sins once. He doesn't have to die again and again, because His sacrifice was enough.

24 For Christ has not entered the holy places made with hands, which are copies of the true, but into heaven itself, now to appear in the presence of God for us; 25 not that He should offer Himself often, as the high priest enters the Most Holy Place every year with blood of another— 26 He then would have had to suffer often since the foundation of the world; but now, once at the end of the ages, He has appeared to put away sin by the sacrifice of Himself. 27 And as it is appointed for men to die once, but after this the judgment, 28 so Christ was offered once to bear the sins of many. To those who eagerly wait for Him He will appear a second time, apart from sin, for salvation. (Hebrews 9)

This may sound radical, but Christ sacrifice on the cross was enough to cover the sins of mankind; even the ones you haven't committed yet. It is not scriptural that there is one sin that forever dooms you that Christ's sacrifice cannot cover, except for the sin that by nature rejects Christ's atonement for sin. You, having come to this forum seeking help on how to be saved, have obviously not rejected God's offer of salvation. You are obviously seeking to do the right thing, to believe the truth. Your intent is to be saved through Christ and know Him.

Let me give you an example. Taking the mark of the beast is the only example of an unforgivable I know of. By unforgivable I meant that once you take the mark you WILL go to hell when you die - no question about it.

9 Then a third angel followed them, saying with a loud voice, “If anyone worships the beast and his image, and receives his mark on his forehead or on his hand, 10 he himself shall also drink of the wine of the wrath of God, which is poured out full strength into the cup of His indignation. He shall be tormented with fire and brimstone in the presence of the holy angels and in the presence of the Lamb. 11 And the smoke of their torment ascends forever and ever; and they have no rest day or night, who worship the beast and his image, and whoever receives the mark of his name.” (Revelation 14)

Now I want you to note this about the people who take the mark - they never repent:

But the rest of mankind, who were not killed by these plagues, did not repent of the works of their hands, that they should not worship demons, and idols of gold, silver, brass, stone, and wood, which can neither see nor hear nor walk. And they did not repent of their murders or their sorceries or their sexual immorality or their thefts. (Revelation 9:20-21

Then the fifth angel poured out his bowl on the throne of the beast, and his kingdom became full of darkness; and they gnawed their tongues because of the pain. They blasphemed the God of heaven because of their pains and their sores, and did not repent of their deeds. (Revelation 16:10-11

And great hail from heaven fell upon men, each hailstone about the weight of a talent. Men blasphemed God because of the plague of the hail, since that plague was exceedingly great. (Revelation 16:21)

Now Cedward, do you want to continue to sin? Do you accept Christ's sacrifice for your sins on the cross and therefore the forgiveness of your sins?

If yes to both, you are saved.

You don't seem like you are blaspheming God and refusing to change as the people who did not repent in Revelation. If you are asking if there is a possibility that a living person could repent and not be able to be saved, I see that nowhere in scripture. The doomed people never repent - the people that take the mark of the beast never repent. In Hebrews 6:4-6 and Hebrews 10:26-29, the person is doomed because they never repent.

Something else I learned is this - God loves even the doomed people, even though He must judge them. God gives stern warnings in the Bible about Hell and the mark of the beast so people will not be doomed and be saved.

To see God's love, take a look at what He says to backsliding Israel (I encourage you to read all of Hosea):

1 O Israel, return to the LORD your God,
For you have stumbled because of your iniquity;
2 Take words with you,
And return to the LORD.
Say to Him,

“ Take away all iniquity;
Receive us graciously,
For we will offer the sacrifices of our lips.
3 Assyria shall not save us,
We will not ride on horses,
Nor will we say anymore to the work of our hands, ‘You are our gods.’
For in You the fatherless finds mercy.”
4 “ I will heal their backsliding,
I will love them freely,
For My anger has turned away from him.
5 I will be like the dew to Israel;
He shall grow like the lily,
And lengthen his roots like Lebanon.
6 His branches shall spread;
His beauty shall be like an olive tree,
And his fragrance like Lebanon.
7 Those who dwell under his shadow shall return;
They shall be revived like grain,
And grow like a vine.
Their scentshall be like the wine of Lebanon.
8 “ Ephraim shall say, ‘What have I to do anymore with idols?’
I have heard and observed him.
I am like a green cypress tree;
Your fruit is found in Me.” (Hosea 14)

God loves you, Cedward.

cedward1 · #23 11th November 2011, 07:57 PM

If you are asking if there is a possibility that a living person could repent and not be able to be saved, I see that nowhere in scripture. The doomed people never repent - the people that take the mark of the beast never repent. In Hebrews 6:4-6 and Hebrews 10:26-29, the person is doomed because they never repent.

I realize that, but that just takes me back to the worry about repentance. What if I can't repent? I can stop sinning, but that's not quite the same thing. I don't know if I was truly sorry about my sin when I first got scared of Hell, and now of course it seems impossible to tell.

There were times in the past where I felt sorry about certain sins, and would ask God's forgiveness and help in overcoming them. But this past year I had some anxiety problems, depression, and resentment and I stopped caring about a habitual sin that would make me feel a little better temporarily. It got to the point where I didn't care too much about God or overcoming the sin. I keep fearing that it shows that I sinned beyond the ability of the Holy Spirit to convict me.

At the same time, I don't even know if I was saved before. Feeling a bit guilty over certain sins and wanting to overcome a sinful habit is not the same thing as true repentance. I think sometimes all I ever felt was a worldly guilt. Some sins I had no problem with, and I rarely felt like seeking or worshipping God. So maybe the Holy Spirit never was convicting me in the first place.

But how would I ever know? Constant anxiety numbed my feelings after a while, so I don't even know if I stopped being sorry over sin or just couldn't feel it any longer. I remember a few times in falling to my habitual sin that I purposely blocked out guilt feelings because I didn't think I could take them on top of everything else.

Now my anxiety is all the worse, so my true feelings are even more buried.

anonym00s · #24 16th November 2011, 02:46 AM

Originally Posted by cedward1

I realize that, but that just takes me back to the worry about repentance. What if I can't repent? I can stop sinning, but that's not quite the same thing. I don't know if I was truly sorry about my sin when I first got scared of Hell, and now of course it seems impossible to tell.

There were times in the past where I felt sorry about certain sins, and would ask God's forgiveness and help in overcoming them. But this past year I had some anxiety problems, depression, and resentment and I stopped caring about a habitual sin that would make me feel a little better temporarily. It got to the point where I didn't care too much about God or overcoming the sin. I keep fearing that it shows that I sinned beyond the ability of the Holy Spirit to convict me.

At the same time, I don't even know if I was saved before. Feeling a bit guilty over certain sins and wanting to overcome a sinful habit is not the same thing as true repentance. I think sometimes all I ever felt was a worldly guilt. Some sins I had no problem with, and I rarely felt like seeking or worshipping God. So maybe the Holy Spirit never was convicting me in the first place.

But how would I ever know? Constant anxiety numbed my feelings after a while, so I don't even know if I stopped being sorry over sin or just couldn't feel it any longer. I remember a few times in falling to my habitual sin that I purposely blocked out guilt feelings because I didn't think I could take them on top of everything else.

Now my anxiety is all the worse, so my true feelings are even more buried.

I apologize for the late reply.

I think what you are saying is that you went so many years not knowing you weren't saved so how do you know now. All I can do is point you back to what I have already said.

You are overanalyzing this - all I know is that once you repent of your sins and turn to Christ you are saved. There is no magic feeling or set number of days to stop sinning. Once you are saved you are saved no matter how you feel. Christ died for YOUR sins and you simply have to accept that fact.

benglobal · #25 17th November 2011, 12:08 AM

Originally Posted by cedward1

As with any of my anxieties, I can't tell if my fears are reasonable or not.

I have tried to figure out exactly what this sin is, but it isn't extremely clear in the Bible and looking it up online has only confused me more because everyone seems to have a different opinion.

Anybody else have this fear? How did you get over it? And what really are the chances that I have blasphemed the Holy Spirit in some way without realizing what I was doing? Is this even a reasonable thing to worry about?

Sin = unbalance and inequality, that creates negative interconnection and relationship that leads to dysfunction and destruction, either within the body creating imbalance in the mind and cellular activity or outside of the body, or with imbalance with the interaction between you and the people in your life.

Sin is to inhibit the process of positive interconnection and relationship (the spirit)

Think about all of life as positive interconnection and relationship. This is the basis of spirit and is fuelled by love which on a base level is to show you care. So to open up this positive interconnection and relationship (spirit) with yourself and others you have to show yourself and others that you care, that is to love. When you can do this you open up to the holy spirit, that is positive interconnection and relationship with God, which comes as a result of showing that you care for yourself and others, because you have connected on this lower level of spirit and as such the higher spirit of interconnection and relationship starts to form. This for Christians would be deemed as being filled with the holy spirit and this is a state of being that is hard to describe and impossible to ignore.
So any action that you partake in that is not loving, as in, does not show that you care has the potential to be sinful, as above at the top, which will inhibit the process of connecting to the higher spirit, or holy spirit. God does not withhold this from anybody Christian or otherwise but to inhibit the process is to withhold it through our actions, yes our free will.

So sin is anything that doesn’t build positive interconnection and relationship, which goes against the spirit, because that is what spirit is on a base level, because the opposite of that is negative interconnection and relationship which leads to dysfunction and destruction. (that’s work of the devil if you want a Christian spin on it)

The hard part is the first bit, to start to show you care are on a base level as this requires personal change, a getting outside of your comfort zone, but to do so starts the process of interconnection and relationship with God .Deep down you already know what aspects you need to change but the hard yards is to stay focussed and know that there is a gain. This for me by the way took a couple of decades but it was worth it as my life has changed immeasurably. Maybe you could give me an example of something you deem to be sinful and maybe I can apply the above assessment to it as an example.

Also don’t beat yourself up over the sins that you say you have, detach from them, in that acknowledge that they are part of who you are but that they no longer serve you, (as it has a negative interconnection and relationship, an evil spirit if you like). That acknowledgment in itself is a dynamic process that over time will bring you what you need. You are a work in progress, not some robotic switch like system that can change in an instant, so don’t stress yourself out. I have been to some dark places in my life which I will not revisit. I
say this to share an end outcome as a result of your worthy endeavours.

jusme · #26 21st May 2012, 08:19 PM

cedward 1,
I too have been through the same kind of issues you have described above. You are not beyond salvation! in fact, I believe you are already saved! and therefore secure if Christ Jesus for ever! Still, you cant stop obsessing about it can you? I understand that very well. Even if you have came to the realization that you are saved, you may worry about someday committing some sin that will doom you to hell. I have been there too... but, it is NOT gonna happen. The only reason you are afraid you may have committed the unpardonable sin, is because you FEEL unsaved and/or abandoned and alone... am I right? I am no prophet or mind reader or any such goofy thing. Just a sinful man, saved by the Grace of God through Jesus Christ who also happens to have OCD (Obsessive Compulsive Disorder).

If you haven't already, you need to seek medical help. See a Psychiatrist and don't be ashamed too. its nothing wrong with it, there just doctors who specialize in the brain and its maladies. Also, it DOES NOT mean you are crazy! your not!!

it sounds like you have a disorder known as OCD with scrupulous (spiritual) obsessions and compulsions. I have that myself... First and far-most please see a doctor if you have not already.

Second, some really good books to read (authered by Christians) are "A new Light on Depression", "O C D Trap", "The Doubting Diesease", "why do Christians Shoot Their Woonded". and for spiritual inspiration, "How to be Born Again" and "Eternal Security"

Ill be praying for you!
Not praying for you to be saved... as I believe you already are, (but if you want to ask Jesus to save you again, he don't mind you asking) He knows your mental and emotional pain... and thats what I will be praying about for you. I know all to well how tormented you are/were my brother!

God will bless you!

robert777 · #27 6th June 2012, 01:25 PM

What adds more worry to this is the version it that is in Matthew. as you got further on the scripture it states every word we speak we will have to give account for on judgement day. So if we did commit that sin and had a perfect godly life afterwards does it mean thats it... you did well for me in the end but you committed this sin, how do you account for these words? you knew it was unforgivable?

Its frieghtening and scares me almost to death thinking I could be tormented in a terrible place if I accidentally said it no matter how godly i become after it.

mjolnir81 · #28 6th June 2012, 01:41 PM

It's difficult, im going through a similar thing I'm more than happy to accept the lords forgiveness but I don't always feel I deserve it, like you say it's just seems so easy to say all your sins are forgiven, but a part of me feels I deserve to be punished for the sins of the past.

jusme · #29 6th June 2012, 03:15 PM

[quote=robert777;60680535]What adds more worry to this is the version it that is in Matthew. as you got further on the scripture it states every word we speak we will have to give account for on judgement day. So if we did commit that sin and had a perfect godly life afterwards does it mean thats it... you did well for me in the end but you committed this sin, how do you account for these words? you knew it was unforgivable?

Its frieghtening and scares me almost to death thinking I could be tormented in a terrible place if I accidentally said it no matter how godly i become after it.[/quote

The passage in Matthew that your referring to has to do with rewards in heaven not condemnation! For there is now no condemnation for those in Christ.

What sins did Jesus pay for when he died on the cross? just the ones that had been commited up until that point in time? Just the ones in our past from the moment we accepted him as Lord and Savior? No, He paid the sin debt for the whole world, past, present and future, right then and there! He proclaimed, "it is finished". To believe otherwise, would mean ultimately that were saved by our works. eg... doing this and not doing that etc...

But, the Bible is clear that were saved by grace through faith and even that faith through which were saved by grace is a GIFT of God!

A good book to read (and back up with your bible if you wish) is one titled Eternal Security by Charles Stanley.

jusme · #30 6th June 2012, 03:28 PM

Originally Posted by mjolnir81

It's difficult, im going through a similar thing I'm more than happy to accept the lords forgiveness but I don't always feel I deserve it, like you say it's just seems so easy to say all your sins are forgiven, but a part of me feels I deserve to be punished for the sins of the past.

Hi mjolnir81,

None of us "deserve" God's forgivness. If we did, salvation would be a payment from God not a gift.

However we know, as it is written in Gods Word:

"for the wages of sin is death, but the GIFT of God is eternal life through Jesus Christ our Lord."

That is, everone who lives on this earth will have their body die someday because of the curse of sin that originated with Adam and has been passed down to all. But, those who have believed in Jesus Christ as their Savior, will be given eternal life through Him.

Christ said: "He who believes in me, even though he dies, yet shall he live and he who lives and believes in me shall never die."