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Unorthodox Theology A forum to discuss/debate theological doctrines not accepted by mainstream evangelical Christianity (eg. Full Preterism, Unitarianism) Orthodox* and Unorthodox members welcome

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  #521  
Old 2nd August 2012, 10:32 AM
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Originally Posted by dollarsbill View Post
Why don't you just explain to us how killing someone is doing good to them as Jesus COMMANDED us to do? Show us from the NT how you justify killing others.
The measure of what we should do is in ALL SCRIPTURE, taken in context and in consideration of related scripture. Why do you want to limit us to the new Testament? Granted the gospel of Jesus Christ did change the nature of man's relationship to God and other men some what but it doesn't lead to what you seem to want to suggest, that forcibly stopping an evil doer from raping ones wife, sodomizing ones daughter or murdering ones parents is immoral. We have a moral duty to defend the weak and helpless and to care for our families. But here is some New Testament scripture that may hopefully broaden your views on self-defense. A biblical view of self defense
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  #522  
Old 2nd August 2012, 11:01 AM
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Originally Posted by BondiHarry View Post
The measure of what we should do is in ALL SCRIPTURE, taken in context and in consideration of related scripture. Why do you want to limit us to the new Testament? Granted the gospel of Jesus Christ did change the nature of man's relationship to God and other men some what but it doesn't lead to what you seem to want to suggest, that forcibly stopping an evil doer from raping ones wife, sodomizing ones daughter or murdering ones parents is immoral. We have a moral duty to defend the weak and helpless and to care for our families. But here is some New Testament scripture that may hopefully broaden your views on self-defense. A biblical view of self defense
"Show us from the NT how you justify killing others."
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  #523  
Old 2nd August 2012, 11:07 AM
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Originally Posted by dollarsbill View Post
"Show us from the NT how you justify killing others."
Why do you ignore what I've linked, why do you ignore the Old Testament and what do you think of "All Scripture is God-breathed and is useful for teaching, rebuking, correcting and training in righteousness, so that the servant of God may be thoroughly equipped for every good work" (2 Timothy 3:16-17)?
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  #524  
Old 3rd August 2012, 08:32 AM
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Originally Posted by BondiHarry View Post
Why do you ignore what I've linked, why do you ignore the Old Testament and what do you think of "All Scripture is God-breathed and is useful for teaching, rebuking, correcting and training in righteousness, so that the servant of God may be thoroughly equipped for every good work" (2 Timothy 3:16-17)?
Perhaps you are not aware that Christ did away with the OT concerning warfare?
Be not overcome of evil, but overcome evil with good. Ro 12:16-21
Phil 3:17 Brethren, be followers together of me, and mark them which walk so as ye have us for an ensample.
18 (For many walk, of whom I have told you often, and now tell you even weeping, that they are the enemies of the cross of Christ:

Mt 5:38 Ye have heard that it hath been said, An eye for an eye, and a tooth for a tooth:
39 But I say unto you, That ye resist not evil:…
He also said Matt 5:43 Ye have heard that it hath been said, Thou shalt love thy neighbour, and hate thine enemy.
44 But I say unto you, Love your enemies, bless them that curse you, do good to them that hate you, and pray for them which despitefully use you, and persecute you;
Eph 6:17 And take the helmet of salvation, and the sword of the Spirit, which is the word of God
2 Cor 10:2-4 For though we walk in the flesh, we do not war after the flesh: 4(For the weapons of our warfare are not carnal, but mighty through God to the pulling down of strong holds
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1Ch 25:5 all these were sons of Heman the king’s seer in the words of God, to exalt his power;Hozeh ("seer") also means "to see" or "to perceive," but is also used in reference to musicians. It is also used to describe a counselor or an advisor to a king. The Hebrew does not necessarily indicate that the person is a prophet, but rather an advisor—someone who has wisdom.
It means "one who has insight." Hence, the essential meaning in Greek is "interpreter."
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  #525  
Old 3rd August 2012, 09:04 AM
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Originally Posted by underheaven View Post
Thatis how You have to live .Many others do not agree,do not have the same values,and can come on a plane to your 'space.
There are now more than 7 billion people on the planet.How do you propose to protect your neighbourhoood,and beyond ? We live on the earth [in the universe ]according to Laws ,and we will continue to do so,until the majority of humanity is 'civilised ' in their hearts,and atuned to God's love,and obedient to Him .Jesus was teaching us what We must be,but He knew also that the 'world' is not like that,and that many souls would cause chaos,and violence .Those who use this idea of Christ in a sentimental way ,forget that as God the Father the creator of the Law ,He is not sentimental,but Just and that requires give very harsh lessons to those who most deliberately,turn to 'false God's [whatever they are],and make His Creation unworkable. A soldier who with no malice, nor personal greed ,but only the desire to do the will of God and protect His Creation,is a better person,than someone who never lifts a finger [in violence] ,but plots and plans to Undo God's works, by stealth ,by undermining the TRUTH .
Unfortunately until Christ comes armies are part of the protection of God's
people.If they do their work as protectors,and not violators,they are doing
God's work .
I grew up from my false idealism,when I bought my house in the countryside.Peaceful ,no violence etc ,but the night I recieved my keys,because of a problem with the water supply,I had to stay elsewhere. The only houses nearby were empty ,because everyone had a holiday. 3 men ,foriegners to the area, entered the house [s] that night,and took everything .I do believe I was being taught a lesson on reality from above, because I was safe myself, but now I had to make locks on everything ,and call those 'bad' policemen for help .
I guess if God doesn't answer our prayers then we are in DEEP trouble.
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  #526  
Old 3rd August 2012, 03:16 PM
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Originally Posted by he-man View Post
Perhaps you are not aware that Christ did away with the OT concerning warfare?
Be not overcome of evil, but overcome evil with good. Ro 12:16-21
Phil 3:17 Brethren, be followers together of me, and mark them which walk so as ye have us for an ensample.
18 (For many walk, of whom I have told you often, and now tell you even weeping, that they are the enemies of the cross of Christ:

Mt 5:38 Ye have heard that it hath been said, An eye for an eye, and a tooth for a tooth:
39 But I say unto you, That ye resist not evil:…
He also said Matt 5:43 Ye have heard that it hath been said, Thou shalt love thy neighbour, and hate thine enemy.
44 But I say unto you, Love your enemies, bless them that curse you, do good to them that hate you, and pray for them which despitefully use you, and persecute you;
Eph 6:17 And take the helmet of salvation, and the sword of the Spirit, which is the word of God
2 Cor 10:2-4 For though we walk in the flesh, we do not war after the flesh: 4(For the weapons of our warfare are not carnal, but mighty through God to the pulling down of strong holds
Picking some scripture while ignoring other pertinent scripture only leads to errors in understanding. Jesus said a good deal more than what you selectively show here about force. War - What The Bible Says
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  #527  
Old 3rd August 2012, 05:30 PM
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Originally Posted by BondiHarry View Post
Why do you ignore what I've linked, why do you ignore the Old Testament and what do you think of "All Scripture is God-breathed and is useful for teaching, rebuking, correcting and training in righteousness, so that the servant of God may be thoroughly equipped for every good work" (2 Timothy 3:16-17)?
Christians are under the New Covenant, not the Law of Moses.

Matthew 5:38-39 (NASB)
38 "You have heard that it was said, 'AN EYE FOR AN EYE, AND A TOOTH FOR A TOOTH.' 39 "But I say to you, do not resist an evil person; but whoever slaps you on your right cheek, turn the other to him also.

Killing others is not a "good work".
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  #528  
Old 3rd August 2012, 05:32 PM
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Originally Posted by BondiHarry View Post
War - What The Bible Says[/url]
What the NT says about war:

2 Corinthians 10:3 (NASB)
3 For though we walk in the flesh, we do not war according to the flesh,
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  #529  
Old 3rd August 2012, 06:31 PM
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Originally Posted by dollarsbill View Post
Christians are under the New Covenant, not the Law of Moses.

Matthew 5:38-39 (NASB)
38 "You have heard that it was said, 'AN EYE FOR AN EYE, AND A TOOTH FOR A TOOTH.' 39 "But I say to you, do not resist an evil person; but whoever slaps you on your right cheek, turn the other to him also.

Killing others is not a "good work".
Do note in EVERY passage where Jesus tells us to tolerate the evil that others may do to us (slapping our face, telling us to carry their burden for a mile, demanding our shirt, taxing us) these are ALL situations where our lives and the lives and well being of our friends and loved ones are not threatened. Are we to extrapolate from these situations that if we are threatened with the rape or murder of ourselves, friends or loved ones we are to meekly submit? Are you suggesting it is wicked to defend our wives, mothers or daughters if they are attacked by a rapist? This is where ignoring other pertinent scripture brings you to a grossly WRONG understanding of what Jesus is teaching us.

Just why did Jesus tell His disciples to buy a sword, a weapon that is meant to injure and kill? A Place for Truth Essays Our war may be spiritual in nature but it most definitely is also fought in the physical realm and I for one do not want to have to face Jesus if I have failed to defend the weak and helpless, the least among us from the brutal people who would rape, torture, enslave or murder them. As we have done unto the least of these, so have we done unto Jesus.
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  #530  
Old 3rd August 2012, 07:30 PM
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Originally Posted by BondiHarry View Post
Do note in EVERY passage where Jesus tells us to tolerate the evil that others may do to us (slapping our face, telling us to carry their burden for a mile, demanding our shirt, taxing us) these are ALL situations where our lives and the lives and well being of our friends and loved ones are not threatened. Are we to extrapolate from these situations that if we are threatened with the rape or murder of ourselves, friends or loved ones we are to meekly submit? Are you suggesting it is wicked to defend our wives, mothers or daughters if they are attacked by a rapist? This is where ignoring other pertinent scripture brings you to a grossly WRONG understanding of what Jesus is teaching us.

Just why did Jesus tell His disciples to buy a sword, a weapon that is meant to injure and kill? A Place for Truth Essays Our war may be spiritual in nature but it most definitely is also fought in the physical realm and I for one do not want to have to face Jesus if I have failed to defend the weak and helpless, the least among us from the brutal people who would rape, torture, enslave or murder them. As we have done unto the least of these, so have we done unto Jesus.
Don't you pray this?

"Deliver us from evil".
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