| Unorthodox Theology A forum to discuss/debate theological doctrines not accepted by mainstream evangelical Christianity (eg. Full Preterism, Unitarianism)
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27th October 2011, 04:51 PM
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Reps: 206,142,994,623,553,696 (power: 206,142,994,623,556) | | | I served in the Marine Corp. There is a difference between gathering an army to conquer, destroy, and enslave; as compared to an army that stands to defend those who are being attacked.
History has shown that those who attempted to stay neutral, soon found themselves at the end of a gun; looking down into a pit they dug with their own hands. And the last thing they may see are their own friends, and family shot in the back of the head, and falling into the pit they also help dig for their own grave.
If a man feels its not proper to serve his country, I have no problem with that; but for that person to look from behind whoever they are hiding behind, and tell me we are wrong, or that someone in the military is less of a Christian for doing what they feel is right; I feel the word hypocrisy coming on.
I consider myself as somewhat of a non-violent person, but don't break into my home, or threaten anyone in my family, because my mood would soon change.
And if mister he-man was my neighbor, and someone broke into his home, was raping his daughter, and beating his wife; if he would not defend them, I would, and I would do it even if it meant my own life, and that's the way it is.
There is nothing premediated about killing someone who is attacking others.
This is another foolish Jehovah Witness doctrine, "No military service thank you." Now you don't have to wander why I reject fully what they teach.
Phil LaSpino  |
27th October 2011, 06:13 PM
|  | Take joy my King, My God be most blessed!
   
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Reps: 9,223,372,036,854,775,808 (power: 9,223,372,036,854,804) | | I served in the Army as an MP awhile back. But I'm sure if China was invading the U.S and the U.S millitary did nothing. Alot of folks would be whats up with that? And even the churches would be throwing up all the scriptures with David going to war (then)
Our warfare in Christ (in particular) isnt carnal, nor are our weapons carnal (in the fight we fight) but then how would obeying governing authorites in a fight against another unjust government?
Sure, we could take it laying down, and after China invades our children and their children (after them) would probrobly not be able to find a bible verse (after awhile) anyway.
But the bible speaks of wars between nations (that these must be too).
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Let the words of my mouth, and the meditation of my heart, be acceptable in thy sight, O LORD, my strength, and my redeemer. |
27th October 2011, 06:21 PM
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Yes |
27th October 2011, 09:59 PM
|  | Jesus Paid It All
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Reps: 115,933,766,990,289,456 (power: 115,933,766,990,316) | | | I understand the path of non-resistance and the desire to settle things peacefully. But there are times when the Amish, Mennonites, and Jehovah's Witnesses are the target of unwarranted violence. I don't know if JWs call the police, but many Amish and Mennonites do. If someone is trying to kill your wife or child, will you do nothing to protect them? Or will you try to physically protect them? Or would you wait for the police to get there? If you even made the phone call, you are approving of force being used against another human being. Does that make the policeman guilty while you remain innocent in God's eyes? |
27th October 2011, 10:32 PM
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Reps: 169,054,587,271,356,096 (power: 169,054,587,271,359) | | Originally Posted by Phoebe Ann  I understand the path of non-resistance and the desire to settle things peacefully. But there are times when the Amish, Mennonites, and Jehovah's Witnesses are the target of unwarranted violence. I don't know if JWs call the police, but many Amish and Mennonites do. If someone is trying to kill your wife or child, will you do nothing to protect them? Or will you try to physically protect them? Or would you wait for the police to get there? If you even made the phone call, you are approving of force being used against another human being. Does that make the policeman guilty while you remain innocent in God's eyes?  |
28th October 2011, 12:55 AM
|  | In Vino Veritas
 
| | Join Date: 10th January 2008 Location: De Pere, Wisconsin
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Reps: 9,223,372,036,854,775,808 (power: 9,223,372,036,854,792) | | Originally Posted by LaSpino3 I served in the Marine Corp. There is a difference between gathering an army to conquer, destroy, and enslave; as compared to an army that stands to defend those who are being attacked.
History has shown that those who attempted to stay neutral, soon found themselves at the end of a gun; looking down into a pit they dug with their own hands. And the last thing they may see are their own friends, and family shot in the back of the head, and falling into the pit they also help dig for their own grave.
If a man feels its not proper to serve his country, I have no problem with that; but for that person to look from behind whoever they are hiding behind, and tell me we are wrong, or that someone in the military is less of a Christian for doing what they feel is right; I feel the word hypocrisy coming on.
I consider myself as somewhat of a non-violent person, but don't break into my home, or threaten anyone in my family, because my mood would soon change.
And if mister he-man was my neighbor, and someone broke into his home, was raping his daughter, and beating his wife; if he would not defend them, I would, and I would do it even if it meant my own life, and that's the way it is.
There is nothing premediated about killing someone who is attacking others.
This is another foolish Jehovah Witness doctrine, "No military service thank you." Now you don't have to wander why I reject fully what they teach.
Phil LaSpino
Semper Fi bro
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28th October 2011, 01:13 AM
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I believe our military and our civil police are what would be called 'necessary evils', as Jesus said, "Woe unto the world because of offences! for it must needs be that offences come; but woe to that man by whom the offence cometh!" So, if a man is called upon by the government of the country in which he lives to go to battle for that country, then it is not wrong for him to serve in the military, and he should not hide behind his religion to keep from serving, for he would be doing what we are biblically admonished to do; obeying the law of the land. (see Rom. 12:1-7) If the war is not a just one it would not be the soldier that was sinning, but woe unto that administrator who is guilty of perpetrating that combat situaltion.
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28th October 2011, 09:24 AM
|  | he-man
| | Join Date: 28th October 2010 Location: usa
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Reps: 100,408,632,182,873,584 (power: 100,408,632,182,880) | | Originally Posted by Phoebe Ann I understand the path of non-resistance and the desire to settle things peacefully. But If someone is trying to kill your wife or child, will you do nothing to protect them? I find it amazing that people lack so little faith and bring in the fear of hypothetical situations. If Jesus controls the wind and the seas, he can certainly control any potentially harmful situation. It is shameful that people are so unbelieving.
Have you considered the story of Chicken Little or Henny Penny?
"The sky is falling" has passed into the English language as a common idiom indicating a hysterical or mistaken belief that disaster is imminent.
English Fairy Tales - Henny-Penny (by Joseph Jacobs)
Mat 14:31 And immediately Jesus stretched forth his hand, and caught him, and said unto him, O thou of little faith, wherefore didst thou doubt?
You have heard that it was said by them of old time, You shall not kill, and whosoever shall kill shall be in danger of the judgment:
But I say unto you, That whosoever is angry with his brother without a cause shall be in danger of the judgment: and whosoever shall say to his brother, moron, shall be in danger of the council. But whosoever shall say, You fool, shall be in danger of hell fire. (Matthew 5:21, 22)
Don't you know the story of the fig tree?
Mat 21:20 And when the disciples saw it, they marvelled, saying, How soon is the fig tree withered away!
22And all things, whatsoever ye shall ask in prayer, believing, ye shall receive.
"If anyone be a soldier or in authority, let him be taught not to oppress or to kill or o rob, or to be angry or to rage and afflict anyone. But let those rations suffice him which are given to him.
But if they wish to be baptized in the Lord, let them cease from military service or from the post of authority, and if not let them not be received. Let a catechumen or a believer of the people, if he desire to be a soldier, either cease from his intention, or if not let him be rejected. For he hath despised God by his thought, and leaving the things of the Spirit, he hath perfected himself in the flesh, and hath treated the faith with contempt."
Cadoux The Early Christian Attitude to War, p. 53, 92, p. 121-126
__________________ 1Ch 25:5 all these were sons of Heman the king’s seer in the words of God, to exalt his power;Hozeh ("seer") also means "to see" or "to perceive," but is also used in reference to musicians. It is also used to describe a counselor or an advisor to a king. The Hebrew does not necessarily indicate that the person is a prophet, but rather an advisor—someone who has wisdom.
It means "one who has insight." Hence, the essential meaning in Greek is "interpreter."
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28th October 2011, 11:03 AM
| | Jesus Paid It All
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Reps: 115,933,766,990,289,456 (power: 115,933,766,990,316) | | Originally Posted by he-man I find it amazing that people lack so little faith and bring in the fear of hypothetical situations. If Jesus controls the wind and the seas, he can certainly control any potentially harmful situation. It is shameful that people are so unbelieving. Have you considered the story of Chicken Little or Henny Penny? "The sky is falling" has passed into the English language as a common idiom indicating a hysterical or mistaken belief that disaster is imminent. English Fairy Tales - Henny-Penny (by Joseph Jacobs)
In our local news, a Mennonite college professor was murdered in his home while trying to protect his wife. This was not a Chicken Little story. This was not hypothetical. The Nazi concentration camps were not hypothetical.
Originally Posted by he-man Mat 14:31 And immediately Jesus stretched forth his hand, and caught him, and said unto him, O thou of little faith, wherefore didst thou doubt?
Peter could only walk on water if he put one foot in front of the other. Have you walked on water? Why do you judge others?
Originally Posted by he-man You have heard that it was said by them of old time, You shall not kill, and whosoever shall kill shall be in danger of the judgment:
You shall not murder.
Originally Posted by he-man But I say unto you, That whosoever is angry with his brother without a cause shall be in danger of the judgment: and whosoever shall say to his brother, moron, shall be in danger of the council. But whosoever shall say, You fool, shall be in danger of hell fire. (Matthew 5:21, 22)
The key words are "without a cause."
Be angry and sin not. Don't let the sun go down upon your wrath.
Originally Posted by he-man
Don't you know the story of the fig tree?
Mat 21:20 And when the disciples saw it, they marvelled, saying, How soon is the fig tree withered away!
22And all things, whatsoever ye shall ask in prayer, believing, ye shall receive.
Does this mean that instead of doing good deeds we should only pray for them to happen? |
28th October 2011, 02:02 PM
| | Traveler
 
| | Join Date: 9th December 2010 Location: Utah - I travel often
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Reps: 1,517,285,009,273,442 (power: 1,517,285,009,276) | | | Sometimes I think people misunderstand scriptures and use that misunderstanding to condemn others. One of the many titles of Christ is “The Peace Giver” or “Prince of Peace”.
I served in the military during the Vietnam era. I did not serve in combat but I have been shot at - and I know the feeling. However, what is interesting to me is that during my military service the closest I ever came to death and the threat of my life was when a group of real Christians decided to save a devout “Mormon”. I was taken from my bed at night and beaten and also threatened with violence to deny my faith.
This action was not taken by atheists or infidels but by “G-d fearing Christians” that argued all the exact same points I see so gleefully pronounced with joy by many on this very forum. Not just against us misinformed “Mormons” but many other faiths that are needlessly attacked in the name of G-d.
Some of history’s greatest wars have been fought among Christians over how the principles of the teachings of Christ should be considered and observed in our Christian societies. Few remember or realize that the 3rd Reich was actually a Christian movement in the name of G-d - obviously gone astray.
It is obvious to me that most if not all wars of history could have been avoided if the general populations understood Christ and the peace he left us. But it also appears to me that many - even on this very forum - are sowing in criticism the seeds of war in the name of their G-d. This appears to me to be a G-d that is neither the peace giver nor the prince of peace.
At the last supper when Jesus sat with his apostles and closest disciples - he mentioned that one among them would betray him (and in essence the others as well). I find the response most interesting. One might think that at least someone would have thought, “It must be Judas - he has been saying and teaching some rather strange things lately!” No, that was not the response of Christians - rather they each turned to Jesus and asked, “L-rd is it I?”
Son of Zadok | | |
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