Home | Be a Christian | Devotionals | Join Us! | Forums | Rules | F.A.Q.


Go Back   Christian Forums > Theology (orthodox Christians only) > Theology (orthodox Christians only) > General Theology > Eschatology - Endtimes & Prophecy Forum
Register BlogsPrayersJobsArcade Calendar Mark Forums Read

Eschatology - Endtimes & Prophecy Forum The Endtimes & Prophecy Forum for the discussion of future events. No full preterist views. Partial preterists welcomed.

Reply
 
LinkBack Thread Tools Display Modes
  #1  
Old 24th October 2011, 07:58 PM
Chris81's Avatar
Servant to Christ

Gender: Male Faith: Methodist Party: US-Libertarian Country: United States Member For 4 Years
 
Join Date: 2nd June 2010
Location: Iowa
Posts: 2,780
Blessings: 20,893,510
My Mood Happy
Reps: 1,368,566,738,133,718,272 (power: 1,368,566,738,133,725)
Chris81 has a reputation beyond reputeChris81 has a reputation beyond reputeChris81 has a reputation beyond reputeChris81 has a reputation beyond reputeChris81 has a reputation beyond reputeChris81 has a reputation beyond reputeChris81 has a reputation beyond reputeChris81 has a reputation beyond reputeChris81 has a reputation beyond reputeChris81 has a reputation beyond reputeChris81 has a reputation beyond reputeChris81 has a reputation beyond reputeChris81 has a reputation beyond reputeChris81 has a reputation beyond reputeChris81 has a reputation beyond repute
Chris81 has a reputation beyond reputeChris81 has a reputation beyond reputeChris81 has a reputation beyond reputeChris81 has a reputation beyond reputeChris81 has a reputation beyond reputeChris81 has a reputation beyond reputeChris81 has a reputation beyond reputeChris81 has a reputation beyond reputeChris81 has a reputation beyond reputeChris81 has a reputation beyond reputeChris81 has a reputation beyond reputeChris81 has a reputation beyond reputeChris81 has a reputation beyond reputeChris81 has a reputation beyond reputeChris81 has a reputation beyond repute
Origins of the Secret Pre-trib Rapture

Let's study the origins of the pre-trib rapture.

Margaret McDonald, a 15 year old Scottish girl, and member of Edward Irving's congregation, had visions in early 1830 that included a Secret Rapture of believers before the appearance of the Antichrist. She informed Irving of her visions by letter. Irving then attended the prophecy conferences that began in Dublin Ireland in 1830 at Powerscourt Castle, where he promoted both Futurism and a Secret Rapture.

John Nelson Darby (1800–1882), a Church of Ireland clergyman, later with the Plymouth Brethren, attended a series of meetings on Bible Prophecy that began in 1830 at Powerscourt, Ireland, and at these conferences Darby apparently learned about the secret rapture as revealed by vision to Margaret McDonald, and promoted by Edward Irving, and he soon visited Margaret MacDonald at her home in Port Glasgow, Scotland. Darby later visited America several times between 1859 and 1874, where his Futurist theology was readily accepted.


So the doctrine of a secret pre-trib came from the vision of a 15 year old Scottish Girl. John Darby then incorporated this belief of the secret rapture into his futurist theology and there in lies the origins of dispensational theology!
Reply With Quote
Become a CF Site Supporter Today and Make These Ads Go Away!

  #2  
Old 24th October 2011, 08:20 PM
Defender of the faith from heretical teachers

Gender: Male Faith: Calvinist Country: United States Member For 3 Years
 
Join Date: 9th November 2010
Location: God's Kingdom
Posts: 314
Blessings: 1,102,672
Reps: 142,090,801,718,103,344 (power: 0)
Charles Spurgeon has a reputation beyond reputeCharles Spurgeon has a reputation beyond reputeCharles Spurgeon has a reputation beyond reputeCharles Spurgeon has a reputation beyond reputeCharles Spurgeon has a reputation beyond reputeCharles Spurgeon has a reputation beyond reputeCharles Spurgeon has a reputation beyond reputeCharles Spurgeon has a reputation beyond reputeCharles Spurgeon has a reputation beyond reputeCharles Spurgeon has a reputation beyond reputeCharles Spurgeon has a reputation beyond reputeCharles Spurgeon has a reputation beyond reputeCharles Spurgeon has a reputation beyond reputeCharles Spurgeon has a reputation beyond reputeCharles Spurgeon has a reputation beyond repute
Charles Spurgeon has a reputation beyond reputeCharles Spurgeon has a reputation beyond reputeCharles Spurgeon has a reputation beyond reputeCharles Spurgeon has a reputation beyond reputeCharles Spurgeon has a reputation beyond reputeCharles Spurgeon has a reputation beyond reputeCharles Spurgeon has a reputation beyond reputeCharles Spurgeon has a reputation beyond reputeCharles Spurgeon has a reputation beyond reputeCharles Spurgeon has a reputation beyond reputeCharles Spurgeon has a reputation beyond reputeCharles Spurgeon has a reputation beyond reputeCharles Spurgeon has a reputation beyond reputeCharles Spurgeon has a reputation beyond reputeCharles Spurgeon has a reputation beyond repute
Although I agree that a pretribulation rapture is a heresy... I do remember reading somewhere that someone taught it before her....
Reply With Quote
  #3  
Old 24th October 2011, 08:54 PM
Choose Wisely's Avatar
Forgiven

Gender: Male Faith: Non-Denominational Party: US-Others Country: United States Member For 3 Years Watchman
 
Join Date: 7th January 2011
Location: Texas
Posts: 2,011
Blessings: 7,569,957
My Mood Sunshine
Reps: 9,223,372,036,854,775,808 (power: 9,223,372,036,854,782)
Choose Wisely has a reputation beyond reputeChoose Wisely has a reputation beyond reputeChoose Wisely has a reputation beyond reputeChoose Wisely has a reputation beyond reputeChoose Wisely has a reputation beyond reputeChoose Wisely has a reputation beyond reputeChoose Wisely has a reputation beyond reputeChoose Wisely has a reputation beyond reputeChoose Wisely has a reputation beyond reputeChoose Wisely has a reputation beyond reputeChoose Wisely has a reputation beyond reputeChoose Wisely has a reputation beyond reputeChoose Wisely has a reputation beyond reputeChoose Wisely has a reputation beyond reputeChoose Wisely has a reputation beyond repute
Choose Wisely has a reputation beyond reputeChoose Wisely has a reputation beyond reputeChoose Wisely has a reputation beyond reputeChoose Wisely has a reputation beyond reputeChoose Wisely has a reputation beyond reputeChoose Wisely has a reputation beyond reputeChoose Wisely has a reputation beyond reputeChoose Wisely has a reputation beyond reputeChoose Wisely has a reputation beyond reputeChoose Wisely has a reputation beyond reputeChoose Wisely has a reputation beyond reputeChoose Wisely has a reputation beyond reputeChoose Wisely has a reputation beyond reputeChoose Wisely has a reputation beyond reputeChoose Wisely has a reputation beyond repute
Read Matthew, Mark, Luke and John. You might then read Pauls writings.
__________________

To view links or images in signatures your post count must be 10 or greater. You currently have 0 posts.

To view links or images in signatures your post count must be 10 or greater. You currently have 0 posts.
Some of us choose to learn when presented with something they had not previously noticed. Others don't. ----1WhirlWind
Reply With Quote
  #4  
Old 24th October 2011, 09:25 PM
Chris81's Avatar
Servant to Christ

Gender: Male Faith: Methodist Party: US-Libertarian Country: United States Member For 4 Years
 
Join Date: 2nd June 2010
Location: Iowa
Posts: 2,780
Blessings: 20,893,510
My Mood Happy
Reps: 1,368,566,738,133,718,272 (power: 1,368,566,738,133,725)
Chris81 has a reputation beyond reputeChris81 has a reputation beyond reputeChris81 has a reputation beyond reputeChris81 has a reputation beyond reputeChris81 has a reputation beyond reputeChris81 has a reputation beyond reputeChris81 has a reputation beyond reputeChris81 has a reputation beyond reputeChris81 has a reputation beyond reputeChris81 has a reputation beyond reputeChris81 has a reputation beyond reputeChris81 has a reputation beyond reputeChris81 has a reputation beyond reputeChris81 has a reputation beyond reputeChris81 has a reputation beyond repute
Chris81 has a reputation beyond reputeChris81 has a reputation beyond reputeChris81 has a reputation beyond reputeChris81 has a reputation beyond reputeChris81 has a reputation beyond reputeChris81 has a reputation beyond reputeChris81 has a reputation beyond reputeChris81 has a reputation beyond reputeChris81 has a reputation beyond reputeChris81 has a reputation beyond reputeChris81 has a reputation beyond reputeChris81 has a reputation beyond reputeChris81 has a reputation beyond reputeChris81 has a reputation beyond reputeChris81 has a reputation beyond repute
Originally Posted by Charles Spurgeon View Post
Although I agree that a pretribulation rapture is a heresy... I do remember reading somewhere that someone taught it before her....
Well, I know that proponents of the Dispensationalism have pointed to some 4th and 5th century writings as potential evidence that the pre-trib rapture existed in the early church. However, while these writings are compelling they really don't represent the commonly accepted pre-mellianial views that existed at that time. I also understand that a Jesuit scholar from around the end of the 1700's also formulated what appears to be what may amount to a pre-trib rapture; however, I have not been able to locate these writings.

While all of this is a bit interesting, I am more interested to know the origins of how Darby came up with the idea of the pre-trib rapture. That connection is found in the vision of Margaret MacDonald. Her vision is that of a partial pre-trib were some of the church are caught up in the clouds while the rest experience tribulation. None-the-less we see the early formation of a pre-trib rapture.
Reply With Quote
  #5  
Old 24th October 2011, 09:30 PM
not the evil king Manasseh

Gender: Male Faith: Non-Denominational Member For 3 Years
 
Join Date: 26th December 2010
Posts: 1,422
Blessings: 346,208
Reps: 1,826,583,330,940,219 (power: 1,826,583,330,945)
Manasseh_ has a reputation beyond reputeManasseh_ has a reputation beyond reputeManasseh_ has a reputation beyond reputeManasseh_ has a reputation beyond reputeManasseh_ has a reputation beyond reputeManasseh_ has a reputation beyond reputeManasseh_ has a reputation beyond reputeManasseh_ has a reputation beyond reputeManasseh_ has a reputation beyond reputeManasseh_ has a reputation beyond reputeManasseh_ has a reputation beyond reputeManasseh_ has a reputation beyond reputeManasseh_ has a reputation beyond reputeManasseh_ has a reputation beyond reputeManasseh_ has a reputation beyond repute
Manasseh_ has a reputation beyond reputeManasseh_ has a reputation beyond reputeManasseh_ has a reputation beyond reputeManasseh_ has a reputation beyond reputeManasseh_ has a reputation beyond reputeManasseh_ has a reputation beyond reputeManasseh_ has a reputation beyond reputeManasseh_ has a reputation beyond reputeManasseh_ has a reputation beyond reputeManasseh_ has a reputation beyond reputeManasseh_ has a reputation beyond reputeManasseh_ has a reputation beyond reputeManasseh_ has a reputation beyond reputeManasseh_ has a reputation beyond reputeManasseh_ has a reputation beyond repute
Originally Posted by Choose Wisely View Post
Read Matthew, Mark, Luke and John. You might then read Pauls writings.
Origins may help in understanding where and when certain false doctrines begin but then again a lot of time can be wasted in disagreement on the where and when they began.

The only true and important understanding is the scripture itself..........not having to read any further than Christ's own Olivet prophecy and him telling his apostles that he will not return at anytime until all the things he foretold would be fulfilled ,ie (great tribulation first) doesn't leave much for argument or disagreement on the who what where when..............

The servant isn't greater than the master..........ie, Paul,the servant is obviously not greater than his savior (master), so Paul didn't teach contrary to Christ's and the 12 apostles teachings..........simply, he taught the very same doctrine Christ taught.............pretrib has no place in either of their teachings...........




Reply With Quote
  #6  
Old 24th October 2011, 09:35 PM
Chris81's Avatar
Servant to Christ

Gender: Male Faith: Methodist Party: US-Libertarian Country: United States Member For 4 Years
 
Join Date: 2nd June 2010
Location: Iowa
Posts: 2,780
Blessings: 20,893,510
My Mood Happy
Reps: 1,368,566,738,133,718,272 (power: 1,368,566,738,133,725)
Chris81 has a reputation beyond reputeChris81 has a reputation beyond reputeChris81 has a reputation beyond reputeChris81 has a reputation beyond reputeChris81 has a reputation beyond reputeChris81 has a reputation beyond reputeChris81 has a reputation beyond reputeChris81 has a reputation beyond reputeChris81 has a reputation beyond reputeChris81 has a reputation beyond reputeChris81 has a reputation beyond reputeChris81 has a reputation beyond reputeChris81 has a reputation beyond reputeChris81 has a reputation beyond reputeChris81 has a reputation beyond repute
Chris81 has a reputation beyond reputeChris81 has a reputation beyond reputeChris81 has a reputation beyond reputeChris81 has a reputation beyond reputeChris81 has a reputation beyond reputeChris81 has a reputation beyond reputeChris81 has a reputation beyond reputeChris81 has a reputation beyond reputeChris81 has a reputation beyond reputeChris81 has a reputation beyond reputeChris81 has a reputation beyond reputeChris81 has a reputation beyond reputeChris81 has a reputation beyond reputeChris81 has a reputation beyond reputeChris81 has a reputation beyond repute
Originally Posted by Choose Wisely View Post
Read Matthew, Mark, Luke and John. You might then read Pauls writings.
Wow, I see what you mean!

“Immediately after the tribulation of those days shall the sun be darkened and the moon shall not give her light and the stars shall fall from heaven and the powers of the heavens shall be shaken. And then shall appear the sign of the son of man in heaven and then shall all the tribes of the earth mourn and they shall see the Son of Man coming in the clouds of heaven with power and great glory. And he shall send his angels with a great sound of a trumpet and they shall gather his elect from the four winds, from one end of heaven to the other.” (Matt 24:29-31)

And this is the will of him that sent me, that every one which seeth the Son, and believeth on him, may have everlasting life: and I will raise him up at the last day. (Joh 6:40)

“In the world ye shall have tribulation, but be of good cheer I have overcome the world.” ( John 16:33b)

Revelation 13 says of the Beast: Vs 7 - And it was given unto him to make war with the saints, and to overcome them: and power was given him over all kindreds, and tongues, and nations.
Reply With Quote
  #7  
Old 24th October 2011, 09:37 PM
Defender of the faith from heretical teachers

Gender: Male Faith: Calvinist Country: United States Member For 3 Years
 
Join Date: 9th November 2010
Location: God's Kingdom
Posts: 314
Blessings: 1,102,672
Reps: 142,090,801,718,103,344 (power: 0)
Charles Spurgeon has a reputation beyond reputeCharles Spurgeon has a reputation beyond reputeCharles Spurgeon has a reputation beyond reputeCharles Spurgeon has a reputation beyond reputeCharles Spurgeon has a reputation beyond reputeCharles Spurgeon has a reputation beyond reputeCharles Spurgeon has a reputation beyond reputeCharles Spurgeon has a reputation beyond reputeCharles Spurgeon has a reputation beyond reputeCharles Spurgeon has a reputation beyond reputeCharles Spurgeon has a reputation beyond reputeCharles Spurgeon has a reputation beyond reputeCharles Spurgeon has a reputation beyond reputeCharles Spurgeon has a reputation beyond reputeCharles Spurgeon has a reputation beyond repute
Charles Spurgeon has a reputation beyond reputeCharles Spurgeon has a reputation beyond reputeCharles Spurgeon has a reputation beyond reputeCharles Spurgeon has a reputation beyond reputeCharles Spurgeon has a reputation beyond reputeCharles Spurgeon has a reputation beyond reputeCharles Spurgeon has a reputation beyond reputeCharles Spurgeon has a reputation beyond reputeCharles Spurgeon has a reputation beyond reputeCharles Spurgeon has a reputation beyond reputeCharles Spurgeon has a reputation beyond reputeCharles Spurgeon has a reputation beyond reputeCharles Spurgeon has a reputation beyond reputeCharles Spurgeon has a reputation beyond reputeCharles Spurgeon has a reputation beyond repute
Originally Posted by Choose Wisely View Post
Read Matthew, Mark, Luke and John. You might then read Pauls writings.
Yea man!!! That's how I became a Post-tribulationist!!!
Reply With Quote
  #8  
Old 24th October 2011, 10:46 PM
Choose Wisely's Avatar
Forgiven

Gender: Male Faith: Non-Denominational Party: US-Others Country: United States Member For 3 Years Watchman
 
Join Date: 7th January 2011
Location: Texas
Posts: 2,011
Blessings: 7,569,957
My Mood Sunshine
Reps: 9,223,372,036,854,775,808 (power: 9,223,372,036,854,782)
Choose Wisely has a reputation beyond reputeChoose Wisely has a reputation beyond reputeChoose Wisely has a reputation beyond reputeChoose Wisely has a reputation beyond reputeChoose Wisely has a reputation beyond reputeChoose Wisely has a reputation beyond reputeChoose Wisely has a reputation beyond reputeChoose Wisely has a reputation beyond reputeChoose Wisely has a reputation beyond reputeChoose Wisely has a reputation beyond reputeChoose Wisely has a reputation beyond reputeChoose Wisely has a reputation beyond reputeChoose Wisely has a reputation beyond reputeChoose Wisely has a reputation beyond reputeChoose Wisely has a reputation beyond repute
Choose Wisely has a reputation beyond reputeChoose Wisely has a reputation beyond reputeChoose Wisely has a reputation beyond reputeChoose Wisely has a reputation beyond reputeChoose Wisely has a reputation beyond reputeChoose Wisely has a reputation beyond reputeChoose Wisely has a reputation beyond reputeChoose Wisely has a reputation beyond reputeChoose Wisely has a reputation beyond reputeChoose Wisely has a reputation beyond reputeChoose Wisely has a reputation beyond reputeChoose Wisely has a reputation beyond reputeChoose Wisely has a reputation beyond reputeChoose Wisely has a reputation beyond reputeChoose Wisely has a reputation beyond repute
Originally Posted by Charles Spurgeon View Post
Yea man!!! That's how I became a Post-tribulationist!!!
Oh, I guess you missed the part about the coming being like the Days of Noah and skipped right over to the coming being like the Days of Lot.
__________________

To view links or images in signatures your post count must be 10 or greater. You currently have 0 posts.

To view links or images in signatures your post count must be 10 or greater. You currently have 0 posts.
Some of us choose to learn when presented with something they had not previously noticed. Others don't. ----1WhirlWind
Reply With Quote
  #9  
Old 24th October 2011, 10:51 PM
Chris81's Avatar
Servant to Christ

Gender: Male Faith: Methodist Party: US-Libertarian Country: United States Member For 4 Years
 
Join Date: 2nd June 2010
Location: Iowa
Posts: 2,780
Blessings: 20,893,510
My Mood Happy
Reps: 1,368,566,738,133,718,272 (power: 1,368,566,738,133,725)
Chris81 has a reputation beyond reputeChris81 has a reputation beyond reputeChris81 has a reputation beyond reputeChris81 has a reputation beyond reputeChris81 has a reputation beyond reputeChris81 has a reputation beyond reputeChris81 has a reputation beyond reputeChris81 has a reputation beyond reputeChris81 has a reputation beyond reputeChris81 has a reputation beyond reputeChris81 has a reputation beyond reputeChris81 has a reputation beyond reputeChris81 has a reputation beyond reputeChris81 has a reputation beyond reputeChris81 has a reputation beyond repute
Chris81 has a reputation beyond reputeChris81 has a reputation beyond reputeChris81 has a reputation beyond reputeChris81 has a reputation beyond reputeChris81 has a reputation beyond reputeChris81 has a reputation beyond reputeChris81 has a reputation beyond reputeChris81 has a reputation beyond reputeChris81 has a reputation beyond reputeChris81 has a reputation beyond reputeChris81 has a reputation beyond reputeChris81 has a reputation beyond reputeChris81 has a reputation beyond reputeChris81 has a reputation beyond reputeChris81 has a reputation beyond repute
Originally Posted by Choose Wisely View Post
Oh, I guess you missed the part about the coming being like the Days of Noah and skipped right over to the coming being like the Days of Lot.
I was unaware that Noah was raptured into heaven. I guess I missed that part of the story.
Reply With Quote
  #10  
Old 24th October 2011, 11:30 PM
Defender of the faith from heretical teachers

Gender: Male Faith: Calvinist Country: United States Member For 3 Years
 
Join Date: 9th November 2010
Location: God's Kingdom
Posts: 314
Blessings: 1,102,672
Reps: 142,090,801,718,103,344 (power: 0)
Charles Spurgeon has a reputation beyond reputeCharles Spurgeon has a reputation beyond reputeCharles Spurgeon has a reputation beyond reputeCharles Spurgeon has a reputation beyond reputeCharles Spurgeon has a reputation beyond reputeCharles Spurgeon has a reputation beyond reputeCharles Spurgeon has a reputation beyond reputeCharles Spurgeon has a reputation beyond reputeCharles Spurgeon has a reputation beyond reputeCharles Spurgeon has a reputation beyond reputeCharles Spurgeon has a reputation beyond reputeCharles Spurgeon has a reputation beyond reputeCharles Spurgeon has a reputation beyond reputeCharles Spurgeon has a reputation beyond reputeCharles Spurgeon has a reputation beyond repute
Charles Spurgeon has a reputation beyond reputeCharles Spurgeon has a reputation beyond reputeCharles Spurgeon has a reputation beyond reputeCharles Spurgeon has a reputation beyond reputeCharles Spurgeon has a reputation beyond reputeCharles Spurgeon has a reputation beyond reputeCharles Spurgeon has a reputation beyond reputeCharles Spurgeon has a reputation beyond reputeCharles Spurgeon has a reputation beyond reputeCharles Spurgeon has a reputation beyond reputeCharles Spurgeon has a reputation beyond reputeCharles Spurgeon has a reputation beyond reputeCharles Spurgeon has a reputation beyond reputeCharles Spurgeon has a reputation beyond reputeCharles Spurgeon has a reputation beyond repute
Originally Posted by Choose Wisely View Post
Oh, I guess you missed the part about the coming being like the Days of Noah and skipped right over to the coming being like the Days of Lot.
But how does that = with the timing of the rapture?

Read Matthew 24:29-31
Reply With Quote
Reply


Return to Eschatology - Endtimes & Prophecy Forum

Thread Tools
Display Modes


 
Become a CF Site Supporter Today and Make These Ads Go Away!


All times are GMT -4. The time now is 03:53 AM.