The Bible Condones Rape

Question.Everything · #1 10th October 2011, 10:24 PM

Isaiah 13: 15-16 puts it plainly:

15Every one that is found shall be thrust through; and every one that is joined unto them shall fall by the sword.
16Their children also shall be dashed to pieces before their eyes; their houses shall be spoiled, and their wives ravished.

Now I've tried to read into the "context" of this story to see if there's any way to disregard what's actually happening here, but I'm not seeing anything.

Why would God command that children be dashed to pieces and women be raped? No matter what they're guilty of, how is this a demonstration of love?

ebia · #2 10th October 2011, 10:46 PM

Originally Posted by Question.Everything

Isaiah 13: 15-16 puts it rather plainly:

15Every one that is found shall be thrust through; and every one that is joined unto them shall fall by the sword.
16Their children also shall be dashed to pieces before their eyes; their houses shall be spoiled, and their wives ravished.

Now I've tried to read into the "context" of this story to see if there's any way to disregard what's actually happening here, but I'm not seeing anything.

Why would God command that children be dashed to pieces and women be raped? No matter what they're guilty of, how is this a demonstration of love?

God doesn't command that those things should happen. It's a kind of war poetry that describes the horror that will inevitably be the consequence for Babylon when it gets it's comeuppance via the Medes and Persians. War is horrible, and the bible doesn't pretend otherwise.

Question.Everything · #3 10th October 2011, 10:59 PM

Originally Posted by ebia

It's a kind of war poetry that describes the horror that will inevitably be the consequence for Babylon when it gets it's comeuppance via the Medes and Persians.

Kind of a war poetry? What does this mean and where does God say it is "war poetry" and not commanded fact?

And what kind of atrocious poetry is this (if it is indeed only 'poetry')? That soldiers fighting in the name of God have the right to ravish women and slay children of the cities they conquer?

Philothei · #4 10th October 2011, 11:02 PM

You are applying an Old Testament custom (?) for Christians... It just does not work like that ....

Part of the Old Testament was the Hebrew History and human hands wrote the Bible. The revelation of God was somehow "in shadow" thus we do not weigh the old testament for telling us all the truth about God but we trust the Son of God who is Christ thus we turn to Christ and seek out the truth about God.
An Eastern Orthodox theologian says that God was in the shadow in the Old Testament while the New Testament God speaks to us directly through His Son giving us more glimpses of God while in the age to come in the Last days we will experience God directly in all His glory and Truth.

drich0150 · #5 10th October 2011, 11:07 PM

Originally Posted by Question.Everything

Isaiah 13: 15-16 puts it rather plainly:

15Every one that is found shall be thrust through; and every one that is joined unto them shall fall by the sword.
16Their children also shall be dashed to pieces before their eyes; their houses shall be spoiled, and their wives ravished.

Now I've tried to read into the "context" of this story to see if there's any way to disregard what's actually happening here, but I'm not seeing anything.

Why would God command that children be dashed to pieces and women be raped? No matter what they're guilty of, how is this a demonstration of love?

Read the whole chapter. In Verse 1 Isaiah tells us this Not a command. Isaiah is trying to rally the troops inspire people and the soldiers of God and fear in the hearts of their enemies.

Like after 9/11 we said we were going to bomb "those people" back to the stone age. Did we? did this country literally destroy everything except items that could be found in the stone age of man, or was that just a rally cry?

Steven masone · #6 10th October 2011, 11:12 PM

In his foreknowledge God predestines. He knows whether you will believe that he is righteous in his judgement because you have come to know him through salvation and by his Word and Spirit you love and trust him. If he sees that you will not....you may be predestined to start eternal damnation in the here and now.

Question.Everything · #7 10th October 2011, 11:21 PM

Originally Posted by drich0150

Isaiah is trying to rally the troops inspire people and the soldiers of God and fear in the hearts of their enemies.

Let's get this quick factoid out of the way: the Bible is the word of God. If God doesn't want something in the Bible, he'll make it that way...it's his book. God allowed this to be a message not only to the people of that time, but to everybody that lives now.

Trying to "rally troops" by telling them that slaying and rape awaits them is not the most peaceful and loving way of going about things. Putting it in the "good book" to all humanity is even less peaceful.

Like after 9/11 we said we were going to bomb "those people" back to the stone age. Did we? did this country literally destroy everything except items that could be found in the stone age of man, or was that just a rally cry?

Who said "bomb those people back to the stone age"? Who do you speak for when you say "we"? Are you literally self-deluded to the point of insanity? I never said such things and neither did any normal, rational person.

And when was this written down in a textbook that is supposed to be the one and only guideline for living? This would be the (even still underwhelmed) equivalent of writing "Bomb those people back to the stone age" in the Constitution.

aiki · #8 10th October 2011, 11:33 PM

Isaiah 13: 15-16 puts it rather plainly:

15Every one that is found shall be thrust through; and every one that is joined unto them shall fall by the sword.
16Their children also shall be dashed to pieces before their eyes; their houses shall be spoiled, and their wives ravished.

Now I've tried to read into the "context" of this story to see if there's any way to disregard what's actually happening here, but I'm not seeing anything.

Why would God command that children be dashed to pieces and women be raped? No matter what they're guilty of, how is this a demonstration of love?

This is a prophetic utterance by Isaiah, which, as ebia noted, is filled with the kind of hyperbole typical of war accounts of that time. I don't see anywhere in the passage, however, a specific command given by God. Instead, Isaiah is describing the misery that will befall Babylon under God's judgment. There is no command by God to rape women; there is only a hyperbolic description of what the end of Babylon will be like that includes rape. It is a fallacy to contend that because there is this description in the Bible that it follows that it ought to happen. By that I mean, the Bible records the awful practices of the Medes when they overtake Babylon, but this doesn't necessarily constitute divine approval of their actions.

Selah.

Steven masone · #9 10th October 2011, 11:35 PM

You are treading on dangerous ground. You are accusing God of being un-loving or that his Word is untrue. He is all knowing and all powerful...His mercy endures forever and if innocent souls deserve mercy according to God's will and judgement he is able to give it his way, "his ways are higher than ours, and his thoughts are above ours...you argue from unbelief and a rebellious heart. REPENT and discover his love and mercy.

Question.Everything · #10 10th October 2011, 11:43 PM

Originally Posted by aiki

This is a prophetic utterance by Isaiah, which, as ebia noted, is filled with the kind of hyperbole typical of war accounts of that time.

Again, where does God tell us that this is a mere 'utterance' or 'hyperbole'?

I don't see anywhere in the passage, however, a specific command given by God. Instead, Isaiah is describing the misery that will befall Babylon under God's judgment. There is no command by God to rape women; there is only a hyperbolic description of what the end of Babylon will be like that includes rape.

So God doesn't command rape, he only describes that (under his ultimate power) rape will befall the cities that oppose him. Right.

By that I mean, the Bible records the awful practices of the Medes when they overtake Babylon, but this doesn't necessarily constitute divine approval of their actions.

Do you have any record that God doesn't approve of these specific actions? My evidence that he does approve is his own words (if you believe that the Bible is a document inspired by God).