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  #1  
Unread 7th October 2011, 04:20 AM
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Is Jesus an angel?

According to the SDA Michael is another name of Jesus.

Is the Jesus the archangel then?

Where does that belief come from?
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  #2  
Unread 7th October 2011, 04:52 AM
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An angel is a created being. Christ was not created. The teaching is widespread in the Jehovah's witness.
I saw a a link sometime ago on the Internet ROOTS OF THE WORLDWIDE CHURCH OF GOD...Google this and you will see that the JW were once Sabbath keepers, they broke away. You will see an organisational chart which will amazed you. (I realise now that the link seems to have been removed.)
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Unread 7th October 2011, 04:55 AM
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Hi

You can read online "Who is Michael the Archangel" by Doug Batchelor and David Boatwright
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Unread 7th October 2011, 07:57 AM
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Originally Posted by keyboard321 View Post
Hi

You can read online "Who is Michael the Archangel" by Doug Batchelor and David Boatwright
nice string of thoughts...

same with the trinity, is it a mandatory doctrine to believe that or can one distingiush between Jesus and Michael.

I mean if it says He is one of the chief princes in Daniel 10:13, does that put him on a level with other beings?? isnt there a clear hierarchy with Jesus on top and everyone else below, claiming Jesus was one of the chief princes, one of many that is... I dont know...
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Unread 7th October 2011, 08:03 AM
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a more interesting thing for me is that the name Jesus is not mentioned in the old testament, in the new testament (of course) all the time. In the very book of Revelation, too. Why the sudden change of the name? WHy bring in Michael and not say Jesus and His angels fought...

????
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Unread 7th October 2011, 09:06 AM
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Does your bible have these passages?


30And when forty years were expired, there appeared to him in the wilderness of mount Sina an angel of the Lord in a flame of fire in a bush.
31When Moses saw it, he wondered at the sight: and as he drew near to behold it, the voice of the LORD came unto him,
32Saying, I am the God of thy fathers, the God of Abraham, and the God of Isaac, and the God of Jacob. Then Moses trembled, and durst not behold.
33Then said the Lord to him, Put off thy shoes from thy feet: for the place where thou standest is holy ground.
34I have seen, I have seen the affliction of my people which is in Egypt, and I have heard their groaning, and am come down to deliver them. And now come, I will send thee into Egypt.
35This Moses whom they refused, saying, Who made thee a ruler and a judge? the same did God send to be a ruler and a deliverer by the hand of the angel which appeared to him in the bush.
36He brought them out, after that he had shewed wonders and signs in the land of Egypt, and in the Red sea, and in the wilderness forty years.
37This is that Moses, which said unto the children of Israel, A prophet shall the Lord your God raise up unto you of your brethren, like unto me; him shall ye hear.
38This is he, that was in the church in the wilderness with the angel which spake to him in the mount Sina, and with our fathers: who received the lively oracles to give unto us:
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And he said unto me, Thou must prophesy again before many peoples, and nations, and tongues, and kings. And there was given me a reed like unto a rod: and the angel stood, saying, Rise, and measure the temple of God, and the altar, and them that worship therein.
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Unread 7th October 2011, 11:11 AM
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Angel as in Messanger or the Father? Yes

angel as in created being? No

The problem is that the word has been used solely to descibe the created beings that serve God as His personal attendants. Thus whenever the word is used in it's proper context, i.e, Messanger, and refers to the pre-incarnate Christ, folk get confused and just assume that because the word "angel" was used it can't be speaking about Christ.
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Isa 24:4 The earth mourneth and fadeth away, the world languisheth and fadeth away, the haughty people of the earth do languish. 5 The earth also is defiled under the inhabitants thereof; because they have transgressed the laws, changed the ordinance, broken the everlasting covenant.
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Unread 8th October 2011, 08:04 AM
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Michael and Jesus

The Angel of the Lord is the tangible and audible message of the invisible God. It was the audible Word Moses heard in the burning bush. It was the audible and sometimes tangible Word that came to the people of old. It was the Word the people rejected. It was the Word that manifested in divers ways all throughout the old testement. It was the Word that became flesh and dwelt among us.

In the old testement there was no personal name given to the Word other than the Word of the LORD.

Judg 13:18 And the Angel of the LORD said to him, "Why do you ask My name, seeing it is secret?"

Hebrews 1:1-2 GOD, who at various times and in various ways spoke in time past to the fathers by the prophets, has in these last days spoken to us by His Son, whom He has appointed heir of all things, through whom also He made the worlds;

The actual words God spoke are seen and understood as God's will and presence manifested not by the Angel the Lord, but rather, as the Angel of the Lord.

The Word in the old testement was the Rock and that Rock was not Michael.

1Cor 10:4 and all drank the same spiritual drink. For they drank of that spiritual Rock that followed them, and that Rock was Christ.

As a retired police detective I’ve had the opportunity to work with voice analysis and recognition machines. These machines analyze voices and identify the individual whose belongs to the voice. Let’s compare the voice of the Angel of the Lord of the Old Testament with the voice of Jesus in the New Testament and you will see that they are one in the same.

Listen to how the audible Word, which is identified as, Angel of the Lord, calls to Abraham and repeats Abraham's name twice.

Genesis 22:11 But the Angel of the Lord called to him from heaven and said, "Abraham, Abraham!'' And he said, "Here I am.''

And again when the Angel of the Lord called out to Moses from the burning bush He called out Moses’ name twice.

Exodus 3:4 So when the Lord saw that he turned aside to look, God called to him from the midst of the bush and said, "Moses, Moses!'' And he said, "Here I am.''

Now listen to how Jesus has this same character trait in how He speaks.

Luke 10:41 And Jesus answered and said to her, "Martha, Martha, you are worried and troubled about many things.

Luke 22:31 And the Jesus said, "Simon, Simon! Indeed, Satan has asked for you, that he may sift you as wheat.

Acts 9:4-5 Then he fell to the ground, and heard a voice saying to him, "Saul, Saul, why are you persecuting Me?'' And he said, "Who are You, Lord?'' And the Lord said, "I am Jesus, whom you are persecuting. It is hard for you to kick against the goads.''

Matthew 27:46 And about the ninth hour Jesus cried out with a loud voice, saying, "Eli, Eli, lama sabachthani?'' that is, "My God, My God, why have You forsaken Me?''

The audible and trangible manifistations of the Word from God seen and understood as the Angel or messenger of the LORD is Jesus, the Word become flesh.

Last edited by k4c; 8th October 2011 at 08:11 AM.
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Unread 8th October 2011, 03:35 PM
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I've seen him and no he didn't have wings. But I don't know, maybe he can appear with wings for others. By "angel" I guess you mean if he looks like an angel with wings?
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Unread 8th October 2011, 07:06 PM
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The Jesus and Michael thing goes right along with the trinity debate they had in the early church. It seems like there is even a movement in the SDA church today to abandon the idea of the trinity.

The belief that Jesus is Michael came out of a desire to see Him as less than God the Father. It is still around today as a remnant of that belief.

For the record, I have no problem with someone believing Jesus is Michael. I can't see how it would matter.

The Father then made known that it was ordained by Himself that Christ His Son, should be equal with Himself; so that wherever was the presence of His Son, it was as His own presence. The word of the Son was to be obeyed as readily as the word of the Father. His Son He had invested with authority to command the heavenly host." - E.G. White, the Story of Redemption, p.13.

Jesus was not always God? At some point it had to be made known by the Father that Jesus was now equal? Jesus was invested with authority by the Father?

Interesting stuff..
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