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1st October 2011, 06:13 PM
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Reps: 633,160,856,109,976,320 (power: 633,160,856,109,988) | | Originally Posted by mpok1519  i dont think you still get US citizenship when you're a terrorist
What trial determined this guy was a terrorist?
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1st October 2011, 06:13 PM
| | Sarcasm is kind of an art isn't it?
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Reps: 633,160,856,109,976,320 (power: 633,160,856,109,988) | | Originally Posted by revanneosl Where did you go to law school?
Does liberty have a law school?
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THE NEW BOSS: JUST LIKE THE OLD BOSS.
"Some people say journalism is in decline, they say you've become too politicized, too focused on sensationalism, they say you no longer honor your duty to inform America but instead actively divide us so that your corporate overlord can rake in the profits," Kimmel said. "I don't have a joke for this, it's just what some people say." |
1st October 2011, 10:52 PM
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Reps: 189,721,253,954,544,800 (power: 189,721,253,954,554) | | Originally Posted by mpok1519 i dont think you still get US citizenship when you're a terrorist Originally Posted by revanneosl Where did you go to law school? Originally Posted by TerranceL Does liberty have a law school?
Who is, and who is not a citizen is a matter of law. Since mpok stated that s/he thought that a person didn't "get US citizenship when you're a terrorist" I just wanted to know where s/he learned that.
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2nd October 2011, 11:14 AM
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Reps: 86,556,926,918,116,496 (power: 86,556,926,918,127) | | | I'd like to point out that there is a thing called territoriality of law, which means that laws apply to a jurisdiction where they can be enforced. A person in the United States (whether they are a citizen or not) is entitled to the rights afforded by the Constitution and our law. Outside the US those rights do not apply, simply for the fact that they cannot be enforced outside our land.
Anwar al-Aulaqi was an Al Qaeda leader, he was a spokesman for AQ and directly inspired numerous terrorist attacks on US citizens. He was a terrorist and an enemy combatant. If he was living in New Jersey we would have sent a SWAT team to arrest him and put him on trial (whether he was an American citizen or not). But he wasn't in New Jersey, he was in a lawless corner of Yemen and the Yemenis are in no position to arrest him b/c they can barely control their own nation.
The President, the military and the CIA did the absolute right thing in removing this man from the human race.
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My conclusion is that there is no reason to believe any of the dogmas of traditional theology and, further, that there is no reason to wish that they were true. Man, in so far as he is not subject to natural forces, is free to work out his own destiny. The responsibility is his, and so is the opportunity.
-- Bertrand Russell
We must respect the other fellow's religion, but only in the sense and to the extent that we respect his theory that his wife is beautiful and his children smart.
-- H L Mencken |
2nd October 2011, 11:30 AM
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Reps: 924,429,738,582,561,664 (power: 924,429,738,582,591) | | Originally Posted by Crusader05 I'd like to point out that there is a thing called territoriality of law, which means that laws apply to a jurisdiction where they can be enforced. A person in the United States (whether they are a citizen or not) is entitled to the rights afforded by the Constitution and our law. Outside the US those rights do not apply, simply for the fact that they cannot be enforced outside our land.
Anwar al-Aulaqi was an Al Qaeda leader, he was a spokesman for AQ and directly inspired numerous terrorist attacks on US citizens. He was a terrorist and an enemy combatant. If he was living in New Jersey we would have sent a SWAT team to arrest him and put him on trial (whether he was an American citizen or not). But he wasn't in New Jersey, he was in a lawless corner of Yemen and the Yemenis are in no position to arrest him b/c they can barely control their own nation.
The President, the military and the CIA did the absolute right thing in removing this man from the human race.
Sounds reasonable to me.
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2nd October 2011, 11:45 AM
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2nd October 2011, 04:55 PM
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Reps: 8,410,916,737,271,687 (power: 8,410,916,737,299) | | I disagree, he should have been charged with the crimes were all so certain he convicted and then he should have been convicted (assuming he was found guilty) in a court of law. This idea that the President can just order the killing of people he believes to be a threat is insane.
If were willing to bomb suspected criminals in forign countries why would we not be willing to snatch him up and bring him before a judge and jury?
ACLU Lens: American Citizen Anwar Al-Aulaqi Killed Without Judicial Process » Blog of Rights: Official Blog of the American Civil Liberties Union
I agree with ACLU Deputy Legal Director Jameel Jaffer who said:
"The targeted killing program violates both U.S. and international law. As we've seen today, this is a program under which American citizens far from any battlefield can be executed by their own government without judicial process, and on the basis of standards and evidence that are kept secret not just from the public but from the courts. The government's authority to use lethal force against its own citizens should be limited to circumstances in which the threat to life is concrete, specific, and imminent. It is a mistake to invest the President any President with the unreviewable power to kill any American whom he deems to present a threat to the country."
Originally Posted by Crusader05 I'd like to point out that there is a thing called territoriality of law, which means that laws apply to a jurisdiction where they can be enforced. A person in the United States (whether they are a citizen or not) is entitled to the rights afforded by the Constitution and our law. Outside the US those rights do not apply, simply for the fact that they cannot be enforced outside our land.
Anwar al-Aulaqi was an Al Qaeda leader, he was a spokesman for AQ and directly inspired numerous terrorist attacks on US citizens. He was a terrorist and an enemy combatant. If he was living in New Jersey we would have sent a SWAT team to arrest him and put him on trial (whether he was an American citizen or not). But he wasn't in New Jersey, he was in a lawless corner of Yemen and the Yemenis are in no position to arrest him b/c they can barely control their own nation.
The President, the military and the CIA did the absolute right thing in removing this man from the human race.
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LOVE is the LAW!
Disclamer: Awl poastings bye ACougar R subgict two speling and gramaticole arrers, ef ewe no hou itt shood bee speled thin yo probly noe wat waz mint, moar dan dis 'E cairs knot.
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2nd October 2011, 05:30 PM
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Reps: 86,556,926,918,116,496 (power: 86,556,926,918,127) | | Originally Posted by ACougar I disagree, he should have been charged with the crimes were all so certain he convicted and then he should have been convicted (assuming he was found guilty) in a court of law. This idea that the President can just order the killing of people he believes to be a threat is insane.
If were willing to bomb suspected criminals in forign countries why would we not be willing to snatch him up and bring him before a judge and jury? ACLU Lens: American Citizen Anwar Al-Aulaqi Killed Without Judicial Process » Blog of Rights: Official Blog of the American Civil Liberties Union
I agree with ACLU Deputy Legal Director Jameel Jaffer who said:
"The targeted killing program violates both U.S. and international law. As we've seen today, this is a program under which American citizens far from any battlefield can be executed by their own government without judicial process, and on the basis of standards and evidence that are kept secret not just from the public but from the courts. The government's authority to use lethal force against its own citizens should be limited to circumstances in which the threat to life is concrete, specific, and imminent. It is a mistake to invest the President any President with the unreviewable power to kill any American whom he deems to present a threat to the country."
Sure, he could have been charged with his crimes but sorry we couldn't serve him with a subpena to appear before a grand jury while he was trucking around Yemen organizing his terror campaign.
I disagree with the characterization of Yemen as "not a battlefield" it is very much becoming the center of the war on terror. Yemen is experiencing several armed rebellions right now which has created power vacuums for AQAP (Al Qaeda in the Arabian Peninsula) to exploit. If he was sitting in the suburbs of New Jersey we could send in a SWAT team to arrest him, if he was in a house in Paris we could work with French authorities to arrest and extradite him. Yemen right now is like the wild west; we really can't walk in, knock on the door to AQAP HQ and arrest him, or expect the Yemeni authorities to either.
What makes you think this was unreviewed? The DoJ and the Senate/House Intelligence committees were informed of this and the DoJ approved putting him on the "kill or capture" list. This is a man who trained, inspired, aided, organized and led an Al Qaeda syndicate. He was an enemy combatant on the battle field and the world is safer with him not in it.
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My conclusion is that there is no reason to believe any of the dogmas of traditional theology and, further, that there is no reason to wish that they were true. Man, in so far as he is not subject to natural forces, is free to work out his own destiny. The responsibility is his, and so is the opportunity.
-- Bertrand Russell
We must respect the other fellow's religion, but only in the sense and to the extent that we respect his theory that his wife is beautiful and his children smart.
-- H L Mencken |
2nd October 2011, 05:45 PM
| | U.S. Army Retired
| | Join Date: 7th February 2003 Location: Arizona
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Reps: 8,410,916,737,271,687 (power: 8,410,916,737,299) | | The Yeman government should be overthrown, it is guilty of massive crimes against it's own people. US support for dictators like Ali Abdullah Saleh is just one more reason people in that region have cause to hate us.
Yemen violence surges as protesters are killed | Amnesty International
Our government is traveling down that same path if it thinks it can simply assassinate anyone it considers a threat. Al Aulaqi was never charged with a crime, never indicted, he was only a criminal suspect.
Originally Posted by Crusader05 Sure, he could have been charged with his crimes but sorry we couldn't serve him with a subpena to appear before a grand jury while he was trucking around Yemen organizing his terror campaign.
I disagree with the characterization of Yemen as "not a battlefield" it is very much becoming the center of the war on terror. Yemen is experiencing several armed rebellions right now which has created power vacuums for AQAP (Al Qaeda in the Arabian Peninsula) to exploit. If he was sitting in the suburbs of New Jersey we could send in a SWAT team to arrest him, if he was in a house in Paris we could work with French authorities to arrest and extradite him. Yemen right now is like the wild west; we really can't walk in, knock on the door to AQAP HQ and arrest him, or expect the Yemeni authorities to either.
What makes you think this was unreviewed? The DoJ and the Senate/House Intelligence committees were informed of this and the DoJ approved putting him on the "kill or capture" list. This is a man who trained, inspired, aided, organized and led an Al Qaeda syndicate. He was an enemy combatant on the battle field and the world is safer with him not in it.
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LOVE is the LAW!
Disclamer: Awl poastings bye ACougar R subgict two speling and gramaticole arrers, ef ewe no hou itt shood bee speled thin yo probly noe wat waz mint, moar dan dis 'E cairs knot.
Pray for Peace in the Middle-East. |
3rd October 2011, 05:48 AM
| | Veteran
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Reps: 58,034,518,001,591,744 (power: 58,034,518,001,607) | | | soooo, its okay to assasinate people believed (and never proven in a court of law) to be terrorists (such as bin laden), but not people believe (and never proven in court of law) to be terrorists who are US citizens?
Do you have to officially sign a piece of paper denouncing your citizenship before you can attain status of assasinatable post citizenship?
So it boils down to, we have to have a trial for everything?
Then why do authorities have lethal rounds at their disposal when non-lethal incapacitating methods are avaliable? | | |
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