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23rd November 2011, 04:43 AM
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Reps: 137,728,672,736,575,984 (power: 0) | | Ebia, JPII, Murphy O Connor, Balthasar all speak with authority on the scope of opinions Catholics may hold
Kalistos Ware speaks with authority on the scope of what Orthodox may believe
Rowan Williams speaks with authority on what Anglicans may believe
All say that it is legitimate to hope that God will save everybody.
I am not disputing that, I am disputing whether they say what you claim. And if you want to debate try quoting to me what they say on the matter with a link to that. You're not bound to agree with the Cardinal is right about hell.
You would be foolish to not believe that he is right about the Catholic Church and the scope of opinion it allows.
Well you follow your Cardinal and I will follow Jesus NT teaching in Matthew 25 and Revelation 22. Read the book first, remember.
So are you telling me the quotes were incorrect or that he corrects them?
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23rd November 2011, 04:48 AM
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Reps: 686,314,855,663,773,952 (power: 686,314,855,663,814) | | Originally Posted by brightmorningstar Ebia,
I am not disputing that, I am disputing whether they say what you claim. And if you want to debate try quoting to me what they say on the matter with a link to that.
go look in the books cited. Balthasars is a whole book on the topic. And you have the Cardinal's quote - that's sufficient for the RCC. If you claim to know anything about E Orthodoxy but aren't Orthodox you ought already to have read Timothy Ware's. When you've confined Balthazar then it's sufficient to know that he was JPII's favorite theologian - and one of Benedict XVI's for that matter.
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Last edited by ebia; 23rd November 2011 at 04:55 AM.
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23rd November 2011, 04:52 AM
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Reps: 686,314,855,663,773,952 (power: 686,314,855,663,814) | | Originally Posted by brightmorningstar So are you telling me the quotes were incorrect or that he corrects them?
I'm saying judge the whole of what Rob Bell says in the full context - which is largely about challenging people to think about their assumptions - rather than judging a book on somebody else's quotemining. Thats what you agreed before - that one needs to read the boom to judge it.
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"Goodness is stronger than evil,
love is stronger than hate,
light is stronger than darkness,
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23rd November 2011, 05:43 AM
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Reps: 137,728,672,736,575,984 (power: 0) | | Ebia, go look in the books cited. Balthasars is a whole book on the topic. And you have the Cardinal's quote - that's sufficient for the RCC. If you claim to know anything about E Orthodoxy but aren't Orthodox you ought already to have read Timothy Ware's. When you've confined Balthazar then it's sufficient to know that he was JPII's favorite theologian - and one of Benedict XVI's for that matter.
No, you demonstrate. I do not accept the Cardinals quote, http://www.romancatholicism.org/fathers-will.htm is in line with the Bible.
I'm saying judge the whole of what Rob Bell says in the full context –
And I have asked you a question about the quotes. You have read the book, are they accurate or does he detract them?
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23rd November 2011, 06:09 AM
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Reps: 686,314,855,663,773,952 (power: 686,314,855,663,814) | | Originally Posted by brightmorningstar Ebia,
No, you demonstrate.
I have. Reference to published works is a proper citation. I do not accept the Cardinals quote,
he was the Cardinal Archbishop of Westminster. He said what he said. It's not up for you to accept or not. He speaks as an official teacher of the RCC at the highest level. If he says it without getting his knuckles rapped by the Pope then it is okay for a Catholic to hold that view.
And I have asked you a question about the quotes. You have read the book, are they accurate or does he detract them?
Anyone who wants to give informed comment on a book needs to read it. You know that.
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"Goodness is stronger than evil,
love is stronger than hate,
light is stronger than darkness,
life is stronger than death,
victory is ours through him who loved us."
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23rd November 2011, 06:14 AM
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Reps: 686,314,855,663,773,952 (power: 686,314,855,663,814) | | Originally Posted by brightmorningstar Ebia,
No, you demonstrate. I do not accept the Cardinals quote, http://www.romancatholicism.org/fathers-will.htm
is in line with the Bible.
And I have asked you a question about the quotes. You have read the book, are they accurate or does he detract them?
Did you look at the website you posted - they're Sedevaticanists.
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"Goodness is stronger than evil,
love is stronger than hate,
light is stronger than darkness,
life is stronger than death,
victory is ours through him who loved us."
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23rd November 2011, 06:21 AM
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Reps: 137,728,672,736,575,984 (power: 0) | | ebia, I have. Reference to published works is a proper citation.
So has Woodpecker, with quotes from the book in question. |
23rd November 2011, 06:26 AM
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23rd November 2011, 12:36 PM
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Reps: 92,302,143,940,485,680 (power: 92,302,143,940,487) | | Originally Posted by brightmorningstar  Ebia,
No thats a contradiction, we know some will not be saved as the scripture says so.
A and C are both false.
TOTALLY AGREE! |
23rd November 2011, 02:35 PM
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Reps: 686,314,855,663,773,952 (power: 686,314,855,663,814) | | Originally Posted by brightmorningstar
What's your point?
Avery Dulles takes a different view to some others. His and Balthasars and Murphy OConnor's are all within the scope of opinion allowed within the Catholic Church.
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"Goodness is stronger than evil,
love is stronger than hate,
light is stronger than darkness,
life is stronger than death,
victory is ours through him who loved us."
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