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  #71  
Unread 30th September 2011, 04:22 PM
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People have been speculating and predicting the Lord's return for thousands of years. What makes anyone believe His return is now imminent? This is a phrase repeated ad-nausiem every generation, for over two thousand years. What makes you think this is the time?
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  #72  
Unread 30th September 2011, 05:52 PM
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Thank you for your reply.

I'll be straight and to the point with this not for there to be any misunderstandings...what I say below is not in any meant in any sarcastic, self-righteous or arrogant way whatsoever. At all.

If you looked at my post, I don't think I have ever said that I know for sure that Christ will return "in my lifetime". Ever (despite you suggesting I have)...What I am sure of is that Christ is going to return "soon". If that is not in my lifetime then so be it, although there is no other Biblical prophecy left to be fulfilled (since Israel once again became a nation in the 1940's) before the Lord's return. That excites me

The tone of your messages in this thread, and maybe I am wrong; suggested that you were talking about me? (You have mentioned: fundamentaliata having some "deep seated fear" of other interpretations, people who think they are important if they know when the Lord is going to return, people who use it as a crutch, "feeling sorry for people" etc) All of these things have been directed my way...and to be honest that's fine. However, you have to be prepared for others to question your particular interpretation too. You can't say things like that and then not be prepared for others with the opposite view to reply. It doesn't work that way. There is nothing wrong in having a different view to me...many have

I do however find it bizarre you calling me "an idiot". Depsite you and many others on here having different views to me, I hope I have had the grace to still show others that they can talk to me if they need advice, help etc even though we don't agree doctrinally...I'm not saying it to do "good works" in the open...at the end of the day we are all part of the body of Christ.

I won't go into detail here, but I remember not so long ago when you needed (or at least could have done with) prayer; I was not being labelled an "idiot" then when I was praying for you (because I was suffering with the same condition)...

Now, all of a sudden...we have debated differences of doctrine, you don't want to speak to me and I'm an "idiot". I'm not going to respond and call you anything like you have me in return. That will solve nothing. If...I have upset you with the perceived tone of my comments, then I am sorry. I have always said...despite how passionately I believe what I do...that everyone else is entitled to their own opinion even though I may not agree with you

Guess it's over to you now if you want to just leave everything in the past. That would be totally cool with me.

God Bless.

Originally Posted by Judy02 View Post
I don't think I ever said believers shouldn't be "vigilant about the Lord's return." In fact, anyone who actually bothered to read my post properly, can see that I actually spelt out fairly clearly that we shouldn't be oblivious to signs the bible speaks of. The reference regarding it being a psychological crutch for some people are when some Christians make what are in my view, ridiculous claims that they "know" Christ is coming back in their lifetime, or make out that it's inconceivable to consider any view to the contrary.

And I said people who make claims over and over again that they "know" the Lord is coming in their lifetime, when they have been proved wrong time and time again over decades and centuries, starts to make their conversations and claims "boring" because their claims have proved to be nonsense. Of course I don't find the concept of God's kingdom on earth boring! Merely some people's continuely proven flawed claims.

You're an idiot, stop taking what I said out of context, just because you didn't like my opinion.

And seriously, just stop talking to me on here. Every post I see of yours only makes me dislike you all the more. I've no interest in talking to you. I hoped I'd already made that clear a while ago...
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Last edited by welshman; 1st October 2011 at 05:54 AM.
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  #73  
Unread 30th September 2011, 06:01 PM
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welshman has a reputation beyond reputewelshman has a reputation beyond reputewelshman has a reputation beyond reputewelshman has a reputation beyond reputewelshman has a reputation beyond reputewelshman has a reputation beyond reputewelshman has a reputation beyond reputewelshman has a reputation beyond reputewelshman has a reputation beyond reputewelshman has a reputation beyond reputewelshman has a reputation beyond reputewelshman has a reputation beyond reputewelshman has a reputation beyond reputewelshman has a reputation beyond reputewelshman has a reputation beyond repute
The Lord talked about the fig-tree (if I remember right...I'm almost falling asleep doing a sleepover for the youth so forgive me lol) blossoming. This was speaking of Israel. They once again became a nation in the 1940's which leaves no other Biblical prophecy left to be fulfilled...until the Lord returns. That excites me as I see things happening in the world which suggest that His return is near...very soon. Maybe not in my lifetime...because "no man knoweth the hour" (not even Christ)...but soon? Yes, probably.

Some of the other things happening such as the global financial crisis, the emergence of the EU, UN etc and global government is also an indicator (I feel) for when the Lord returns for the church and it signals the signing of the peace treaty made by the anti-christ (if you take scripture "literally"...that is unless the scripture is clearly telling us that something is symbolic etc).

Hope this helps you see one interpretation that I personally believe in
Originally Posted by non-religious View Post
People have been speculating and predicting the Lord's return for thousands of years. What makes anyone believe His return is now imminent? This is a phrase repeated ad-nausiem every generation, for over two thousand years. What makes you think this is the time?
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  #74  
Unread 30th September 2011, 07:27 PM
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non-religious has a reputation beyond reputenon-religious has a reputation beyond reputenon-religious has a reputation beyond reputenon-religious has a reputation beyond reputenon-religious has a reputation beyond reputenon-religious has a reputation beyond reputenon-religious has a reputation beyond reputenon-religious has a reputation beyond reputenon-religious has a reputation beyond reputenon-religious has a reputation beyond reputenon-religious has a reputation beyond reputenon-religious has a reputation beyond reputenon-religious has a reputation beyond reputenon-religious has a reputation beyond reputenon-religious has a reputation beyond repute
non-religious has a reputation beyond reputenon-religious has a reputation beyond reputenon-religious has a reputation beyond reputenon-religious has a reputation beyond reputenon-religious has a reputation beyond reputenon-religious has a reputation beyond reputenon-religious has a reputation beyond reputenon-religious has a reputation beyond reputenon-religious has a reputation beyond reputenon-religious has a reputation beyond reputenon-religious has a reputation beyond reputenon-religious has a reputation beyond reputenon-religious has a reputation beyond reputenon-religious has a reputation beyond reputenon-religious has a reputation beyond repute
[ianb321red]Why do you think it's ill conceived?
Several church leaders have used this term - I mentioned (former) Bishop Nazir Ali earlier...The term have also been used by several Catholic church leaders around Easter earlier this year...Are you saying they are completely wrong, or just overstating the case?
Not wishing to sound cynical, but I do believe these types of messages could be construed as trying to keep their particular brand of Christianity relevant. I appreciate that sounds awfully negative, but I do feel it has a ring of truth to it. We live in a predominantly secular, perhaps increasingly so, society and there's no denying the fact that a number of denominations are rapidly diminishing in number. What better way to rally the troops than to have an easily identifiable enemy. In this instance secularism seems to be that enemy.

As Christmas approaches (Supermarkets would have you believe it is merely a day away) you will hear the same, tired and predictable cry of consumerism taking a grip on society and basic Christian ideals falling by the wayside. Don't get me wrong, there are a lot of things fundamentally wrong with secularism, but as a Christian living my day to day life, the perceived threat doesn't seem particularly evident to me. In other words there are bigger battles to be won, within the body of Christ, than minor disputes and offences
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  #75  
Unread 30th September 2011, 07:33 PM
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non-religious has a reputation beyond reputenon-religious has a reputation beyond reputenon-religious has a reputation beyond reputenon-religious has a reputation beyond reputenon-religious has a reputation beyond reputenon-religious has a reputation beyond reputenon-religious has a reputation beyond reputenon-religious has a reputation beyond reputenon-religious has a reputation beyond reputenon-religious has a reputation beyond reputenon-religious has a reputation beyond reputenon-religious has a reputation beyond reputenon-religious has a reputation beyond reputenon-religious has a reputation beyond reputenon-religious has a reputation beyond repute
non-religious has a reputation beyond reputenon-religious has a reputation beyond reputenon-religious has a reputation beyond reputenon-religious has a reputation beyond reputenon-religious has a reputation beyond reputenon-religious has a reputation beyond reputenon-religious has a reputation beyond reputenon-religious has a reputation beyond reputenon-religious has a reputation beyond reputenon-religious has a reputation beyond reputenon-religious has a reputation beyond reputenon-religious has a reputation beyond reputenon-religious has a reputation beyond reputenon-religious has a reputation beyond reputenon-religious has a reputation beyond repute
[welshman]The Lord talked about the fig-tree (if I remember right...I'm almost falling asleep doing a sleepover for the youth so forgive me lol) blossoming. This was speaking of Israel. They once again became a nation in the 1940's which leaves no other Biblical prophecy left to be fulfilled...until the Lord returns. That excites me as I see things happening in the world which suggest that His return is near...very soon. Maybe not in my lifetime...because "no man knoweth the hour" (not even Christ)...but soon? Yes, probably.

Some of the other things happening such as the global financial crisis, the emergence of the EU, UN etc and global government is also an indicator (I feel) for when the Lord returns for the church and it signals the signing of the peace treaty made by the anti-christ (if you take scripture "literally"...that is unless the scripture is clearly telling us that something is symbolic etc).

Hope this helps you see one interpretation that I personally believe in
Appreciate the response
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  #76  
Unread 30th September 2011, 07:38 PM
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ianb321red has a reputation beyond reputeianb321red has a reputation beyond reputeianb321red has a reputation beyond reputeianb321red has a reputation beyond reputeianb321red has a reputation beyond reputeianb321red has a reputation beyond reputeianb321red has a reputation beyond reputeianb321red has a reputation beyond reputeianb321red has a reputation beyond reputeianb321red has a reputation beyond reputeianb321red has a reputation beyond reputeianb321red has a reputation beyond reputeianb321red has a reputation beyond reputeianb321red has a reputation beyond reputeianb321red has a reputation beyond repute
Originally Posted by non-religious View Post
Sorry, I was actually referring to Muslims across the UK/Europe. They are being systematically discriminated against and persecuted relentlessly at the behest of extreme-right wing politicians/governments and just simple plain old Islamophobia. I'm not entirely convinced Christian persecution throughout Europe is remotely comparable
It may or may not be comparable, but let's face it - neither of us are in a position to decide whether Muslims are being persecuted more than Christians..

Even if they are, it doesn't change the fact the Christians are being persecuted - it may even not be physical persecution, but spiritual persecution is still highly damaging to the church...
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  #77  
Unread 30th September 2011, 07:40 PM
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ianb321red has a reputation beyond reputeianb321red has a reputation beyond reputeianb321red has a reputation beyond reputeianb321red has a reputation beyond reputeianb321red has a reputation beyond reputeianb321red has a reputation beyond reputeianb321red has a reputation beyond reputeianb321red has a reputation beyond reputeianb321red has a reputation beyond reputeianb321red has a reputation beyond reputeianb321red has a reputation beyond reputeianb321red has a reputation beyond reputeianb321red has a reputation beyond reputeianb321red has a reputation beyond reputeianb321red has a reputation beyond repute
Originally Posted by Judy02 View Post
You're an idiot, stop taking what I said out of context, just because you didn't like my opinion..
Matthew 5:22
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  #78  
Unread 30th September 2011, 08:01 PM
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non-religious has a reputation beyond reputenon-religious has a reputation beyond reputenon-religious has a reputation beyond reputenon-religious has a reputation beyond reputenon-religious has a reputation beyond reputenon-religious has a reputation beyond reputenon-religious has a reputation beyond reputenon-religious has a reputation beyond reputenon-religious has a reputation beyond reputenon-religious has a reputation beyond reputenon-religious has a reputation beyond reputenon-religious has a reputation beyond reputenon-religious has a reputation beyond reputenon-religious has a reputation beyond reputenon-religious has a reputation beyond repute
non-religious has a reputation beyond reputenon-religious has a reputation beyond reputenon-religious has a reputation beyond reputenon-religious has a reputation beyond reputenon-religious has a reputation beyond reputenon-religious has a reputation beyond reputenon-religious has a reputation beyond reputenon-religious has a reputation beyond reputenon-religious has a reputation beyond reputenon-religious has a reputation beyond reputenon-religious has a reputation beyond reputenon-religious has a reputation beyond reputenon-religious has a reputation beyond reputenon-religious has a reputation beyond reputenon-religious has a reputation beyond repute
[ianb321red]It may or may not be comparable, but let's face it - neither of us are in a position to decide whether Muslims are being persecuted more than Christians..
In regard to both the UK and Europe, you would find it increasingly difficult to find credible evidence to support any claim that the persecution of Christians is in some way comparable with that of Muslims. As I previously stated, governments in many countries across Europe are exploiting the so-called threat to their ways of life and are using their disdain of Islam and thus Muslims, to gain power. I put it to you, that you would struggle to provide any credible evidence to suggest Christians, on an individual or group basis, are being persecuted in any where near the same way Muslims are. You would have be incredibly ignorant to not see the rise in Islamophobia, even here in England. It would be nonsensical to try and suggest that we are not aware, at least in some small part, of the backlash aimed at Muslims on a whole...

Even if they are, it doesn't change the fact the Christians are being persecuted - it may even not be physical persecution, but spiritual persecution is still highly damaging to the church...
Provide me some examples of what you consider Christian persecution (in the UK) that encompasses both spiritual and/or physical attacks..
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  #79  
Unread 1st October 2011, 05:57 AM
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No worries mate. Pleasure
Originally Posted by non-religious View Post
Appreciate the response
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Unread 1st October 2011, 06:49 AM
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welshman has a reputation beyond reputewelshman has a reputation beyond reputewelshman has a reputation beyond reputewelshman has a reputation beyond reputewelshman has a reputation beyond reputewelshman has a reputation beyond reputewelshman has a reputation beyond reputewelshman has a reputation beyond reputewelshman has a reputation beyond reputewelshman has a reputation beyond reputewelshman has a reputation beyond reputewelshman has a reputation beyond reputewelshman has a reputation beyond reputewelshman has a reputation beyond reputewelshman has a reputation beyond repute
To be honest, no-one can say we have it terrible over here. Let's not kid ourselves. We aren't being burnt alive or murdered systematically. However, that kind of thing is going on today in other parts of the world. It's shocking to honest. The muslims, especially in Africa are committing terrible crimes against Christians as we speak...

However, this country is very slowly being stripped away of anything to do with Christ. You only have to look at the BBC and what they have done in doing away with B.C and A.D etc...infact, they are behind the times as this was already in place in university back in '99 when I started.

These are just some of the things that have been going on in the UK recently...
Police ban Bible in Christian café (Blackpool, England)
David Cameron defends ban on anti-gay foster parents - Telegraph
icBirmingham - Students ban Christian group
BBC News - Christian hoteliers appeal against ban on gay couple
Christmas banned in Oxford by council-owned charity - Telegraph
'PC' firms ban Christmas glitz | Manchester Evening News - menmedia.co.uk
Christianity as a Target of Political Correctness Craziness

Can you imagine the PC brigade doing this to Muslims in this country? "Sorry pal, you can't put any decorations up for Ramadan" incase it offends people" LOL That would never, ever happen. Why? Because we are to embaressed at times to stand up for being a Christian. I imagine a lot won't even tell their workmates they are. This is the inevitable result.

I wouldn't say we are being persecuted nearly as much as brothers and sisters in other countries. What I would ask is why do we put up with all of this PC nonsense?
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Last edited by welshman; 1st October 2011 at 06:59 AM.
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