Marriage

Then they really need to get over it. You could always move to some country where a marriage license isn't required. It's not that hard to obtain a marriage license and have a few people sign it. It has ramifications for other legal areas for both the man and woman so it's wise just to get over yourself and do it.

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Jesus + Nothing = Everything.

Why should I get over it? Just because the big bad government tells me to? The Bible gives no such requirement for what is considered a marriage, so why do you?

Um, required for what exactly?

Except that I oppose said license and will not do things that I am against.

I imagine you'd be singing a different tune if the state did the same thing with, say, baptism and the Lord's Supper. Or they gave some weird rules for what is considered a valid marriage.

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"If we rendered unto God all the things that belong to God, there would be nothing left for Caesar." --Dorothy Day

Just go to a state that does common law marriage and do that. No certificates need to be signed.

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(Still making magic every day.)

I'm just trying to understand the point behind not getting one. It just sounds childish to me. It's not that difficult and there are ramifications that you and your spouse would run into if you didn't have one. There are plenty of evidences in the Bible of respecting the guidelines that have been set by government. Would it be reflective of Christ to be rebellious just because you take an issue with signing a document?

For recognition as a married citizen.

They're very different, but I won't get into that. The thing is, though, there's nothing inconvenient or weird about it.

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Jesus + Nothing = Everything.

But it's not rebellious to not have a civil marriage. It's not like you're going to be fined or arrested for having a priest marry you but not sign a State certificate. Nobody cares if you go around saying you're married with just a religious ceremony.

The civil marriage is signing up for tax and other benefits such as hospital visitation rights and the inheritence and property issues the State got involved in marriage in the first place for, and you don't even strictly need a marriage license for much of those things. You could have a lawyer draw up contracts and wills that nearly duplicate civil marriage.

It might be a bad idea to not get an Official Marriage™, but it's not being rebellious.

If you consider marriage a sacrament, I can even see how it might be considered idolatrous to get a State marriage.

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"A man can never have too much red wine, too many books, or too much ammunition." -Rudyard Kipling

Originally Posted by Paulie079

I'm just trying to understand the point behind not getting one.

It’s sort of like why big animal rights activists won’t eat meat. They view it as something that people shouldn’t do. The government shouldn’t have marriage licenses and thus I would never get one. I wouldn’t say it’s morally wrong to get one; I just refuse to let the government into another area of my life.

Originally Posted by Paulie079

It's not that difficult and there are ramifications that you and your spouse would run into if you didn't have one.

I don’t care; I would rather face such ramifications than take the government’s stupid license.

Originally Posted by Paulie079

Would it be reflective of Christ to be rebellious just because you take an issue with signing a document?

So you think Jesus would just agree with whatever the government said just to keep peace? You know that Jesus disagreed with what the state about who was Lord, right?

So to answer your question, yes it would be

Originally Posted by Paulie079

For recognition as a married citizen.

I could care less about whether the state recognizes me as married.

Originally Posted by Paulie079

They're very different, but I won't get into that.

No, please do. How are they different? Just because the government has done it such a long time?

Originally Posted by Paulie079

The thing is, though, there's nothing inconvenient or weird about it.

According to who? I find the idea of going to the government to marry somebody to be ridiculous.

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"If we rendered unto God all the things that belong to God, there would be nothing left for Caesar." --Dorothy Day

Okay, I can't post up the scripture just as yet, sir, but I will get back to you on that one!

I can see what view point you are coming from and if you want to take it down that lane, then yes, I do agree.

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Well, now that pandora's box is already opened...

Did Adam and Eve require a marriage license? Were they married or not? If they were, what distinguishes marriage from fornication?

MARRIAGE is a strong knot that binds two persons deeply in love and decided to commit forever. The sanctity of marriage should be valued and as promised and vowed in front of God to live happily ever after.....

Fornication doesn't have covenant with it. Marriage does. What does torah command when you marry? You are married to that one person for life!

To answer Strav's question for the passage of scripture, Deuteronomy clears that one.

[bible]Deuteronomy 22:22 If a man be found lying with a woman married to an husband, then they shall both of them die, both the man that lay with the woman, and the woman: so shalt thou put away evil from Israel.[/bible]

Adultery, clear cut! She's married and has relations outside the marriage.

[bible]23 If a damsel that is a virgin be betrothed unto an husband, and a man find her in the city, and lie with her;

24 Then ye shall bring them both out unto the gate of that city, and ye shall stone them with stones that they die; the damsel, because she cried not, being in the city; and the man, because he hath humbled his neighbour's wife: so thou shalt put away evil from among you.[/bible]

Being betrothed/promised in marriage to one is already bound to the covenant of marriage, therefore, for her to go outside is the same as adultery. She is as if she were already married.

[bible]25 But if a man find a betrothed damsel in the field, and the man force her, and lie with her: then the man only that lay with her shall die.

26 But unto the damsel thou shalt do nothing; there is in the damsel no sin worthy of death: for as when a man riseth against his neighbour, and slayeth him, even so is this matter:

27 For he found her in the field, and the betrothed damsel cried, and there was none to save her.[/bible]

Rape is murder.

[bible]28 If a man find a damsel that is a virgin, which is not betrothed, and lay hold on her, and lie with her, and they be found;

29 Then the man that lay with her shall give unto the damsel's father fifty shekels of silver, and she shall be his wife; because he hath humbled her, he may not put her away all his days.[/bible]

Both single, no ties or promises attached, sleeping with one another = you're married! Torah did allow that a man can not marry her however he still had to pay the father the sum of a married woman. Basically, it was as if he'd just divorced her. Were they married? In God's eyes it was as if they were.

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