Water Baptism

Some people say you can't be saved without being water baptized. As evidenced from posts I see on forums. I have never been personally water baptized and I have no church affiliation. It is possible I will never be baptized with water (not that it is a concern). I simply reject the common faith people hold about many things, which extends to most if not almost all of these churches. But say, I am doing Gods will and having genuine faith (100% unwavering), do people still think I will go to the pit and the lake of fire? Why?

Originally Posted by Sieben

Some people say you can't be saved without being water baptized. As evidenced from posts I see on forums. I have never been personally water baptized and I have no church affiliation. It is possible I will never be baptized with water (not that it is a concern). I simply reject the common faith people hold about many things, which extends to most if not almost all of these churches. But say, I am doing Gods will and having genuine faith (100% unwavering), do people still think I will go to the pit and the lake of fire? Why?

Actually, you don't need to be baptized to be saved . it's just a sales pitch of the early church traditions . the royal priesthood of believers begins when one receives the baptism of the Holy Spirit when we begin trusting Jesus . the ancient traditions stipulate this happens when we are baptized . the bible says something else . and my experience says something else also .

God sent Jesus so man problems would not get in the way of his reconciliation with us . the idea of sacraments hindering the way to salvation is totally against what Jesus did on the cross .

__________________
"whatever other command there may be, are summed up in this one command: “Love your neighbor as yourself.” Love does no harm to a neighbor. Therefore love is the fulfillment of the law."
(Romans 13:9-10)

"Anything that does not come from faith is sin" (Romans 14:23)

"The only thing that matters is faith expressing itself through love" (Galatians 5:6)

God is love. Whoever lives in love lives in God, and God in them. This is how love is made complete among us so that we will have confidence on the day of judgment: because in this world we are like him. There is no fear in love. But perfect love drives out fear, because fear has to do with punishment. The one who fears is not made perfect in love. (1 John 4:16-18)

-Michael Collum

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Not being baptized doesn't mean you're damned, just as receiving baptism doesn't guarantee heaven; however Scripture is quite clear about the purpose of Baptism and what it does. The purpose of Baptism, as given to us by God, is to bring us into the saving life of God by His grace into a life of faith united to Christ Jesus for the forgiveness of sin, making us members of His Body, the Church. Baptism does these things, not because of some magical power of water, by by the word and promise of God connected to Holy Baptism, because He has given us Baptism for this reason and God's promises and word are never void. Which is why Holy Scripture says:

"And Peter said to them, 'Repent and be baptized every one of you in the name of Jesus Christ for the forgiveness of your sins, and you will receive the gift of the Holy Spirit. For the promise is for you and for your children and for all who are far off, everyone whom the Lord our God calls to Himself.'" - Acts 2:38-39

"Do you not know that all of us who have been baptized into Christ Jesus were baptized into His death? We were buried therefore with Him by Baptism into death, in order that, just as Christ was raised from the dead by the glory of the Father, we too might walk in newness of life. For if we have been united with Him in a death like His, we shall certainly be united with Him in a resurrection like His. We know that our old self was crucified with Him in order that the body of sin might be brought to nothing, so that we would not longer be enslaved to sin. For one who has died has been set free from sin. Now if we have died with Christ, we believe that we will also live with Him. We know that Christ, being raised from the dead, will never die again; death no longer has dominion over Him. For the dead He died He died to sin, once and for all, but the life He lives He lives to God. So you also must consider yourselves dead to sin and alive to God in Christ Jesus." - Romans 6:3-11

"But now that faith has come, we are no longer under a guardian, for in Christ Jesus you are all sons of God, through faith. For as many of you as were baptized into Christ have put on Christ. There is neither Jew nor Greek, there is neither slave nor free, there is neither male and female, for you are all one in Christ Jesus. And if you are Christ's, then you are Abraham's offspring, heirs according to promise." - Galatians 3:25-29

"See to it that no one takes you captive by philosophy and empty deceit, according to human tradition, according to the elemental spirits of the world, and not according to Christ. For in Him the whole fullness of Deity dwells bodily, and you have been filled in Him, who is the head of all rule and authority. In Him also were you circumcised with a circumcision made without hands, by putting off the body of flesh, by the circumcision of Christ, having been buried with Him in Baptism, in which you also were also raised with Him through faith in the powerful working of God, who raised Him from the dead." - Colossians 2:8-12

"For Christ also suffered once for sins, the righteous for the unrighteous, that He might bring us to God, being put to death in the flesh but made alive in the Spirit, in which He went and proclaimed to the spirits in prison, because they formerly did not obey, when God's patience waited in the days of Noah, while the ark was being prepared, in which a few, that is, eight persons, were brought safely through the water. Baptism, which corresponds to this, now saves you, not as a removal of dirt from the body but as an appeal to God for a good conscience, through the resurrection of Jesus Christ, who has gone into heaven and is at the right hand of God, with angels, authorities, and powers having been subjected to Him." - 1 Peter 3:18-22

"For just as the body is one and has many members, and all the members of the body, though many, are one body, so it is with Christ. For in one Spirit we were all baptized into one body--Jews or Greeks, slaves or free--and all were made to drink of one Spirit." - 1 Corinthians 12:12-13

-CryptoLutheran

__________________
Heavenly Father, be with all Your children who dwell in the Land. In Christ's Name may there be peace for all who dwell there.

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While it may be difficult to find a "good Church," it is not impossible. We are to be joined to His Body in a tangible way, with relationships that matter. We grow better

Originally Posted by razeontherock

While it may be difficult to find a "good Church," it is not impossible. We are to be joined to His Body in a tangible way, with relationships that matter. We grow better

I grow better away from standard church atmospheres . but i'm a different kind of fish . i'm a zebra . the problem is, i don't fit into the aquarium and can't breathe too well in there . open fields and clear skies for me .

__________________
"whatever other command there may be, are summed up in this one command: “Love your neighbor as yourself.” Love does no harm to a neighbor. Therefore love is the fulfillment of the law."
(Romans 13:9-10)

"Anything that does not come from faith is sin" (Romans 14:23)

"The only thing that matters is faith expressing itself through love" (Galatians 5:6)

God is love. Whoever lives in love lives in God, and God in them. This is how love is made complete among us so that we will have confidence on the day of judgment: because in this world we are like him. There is no fear in love. But perfect love drives out fear, because fear has to do with punishment. The one who fears is not made perfect in love. (1 John 4:16-18)

-Michael Collum

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Notice this is not what I said, but "good Church." In quotes the first time too
"Standard Church atmospheres" have been death to me, thus far. A nearly constant subject somewhere on CF, is the various denoms. I think the Lord has His reasons for them, and perhaps you and I are both some of those ...

Just like He showed to Elijah, He has a people reserved unto Himself. A people that will nurture us, and help us grow rather than crush us.

Aspects of baptism in the New Testament, inter-testamental Judaism, and early Christian writings are tricky at points, hence some divergence in understanding and use even early on (e.g., in the Didache), although common similarities between positions may be observed, e.g., baptism in water representing cleansing from sin.

Adding to complications is that water baptism was at times used figuratively as well as literally even in the New Testament. But these figurative uses lean back on the water ritual and arguably on Mosaic rituals before Christian ones.

What seems among the most important aspects includes Jesus commissioning His disciples to make disciples (the Great Commission of Matthew 28), and this commission included baptizing disciples in the name of the Father and of the Son and of the Holy Spirit. In other words, if it was important to Jesus, it must be important to those who believe He is Lord.

Granted, baptism is not required for justification for those who read Paul (and by implication John, etc.) as Martin Luther did. Justification is by faith alone, apart from works, whether those works be ritual, like baptism, or something else, like acts of charity. But even for those who believe in justification by faith alone, works play an important and necessary role. As James said, faith without works is dead. Works form evidence of inward faith. Those who believe Jesus' death justifies obey what Jesus says, including baptism.

Jesus also says that those who love Him must keep His commandments, and these include loving the "brothers" (and sisters) in the faith. Jesus said He would build His church. To isolate oneself from the family of faith voluntarily cannot be a sign of inward faith in Jesus as Lord.

Question about the need for baptism and church going collapses into a more important question about who Jesus is, and whether He commissioned His disciple/apostles to record His teachings and their implications.

P.S. Those not following an essentially Lutheran position on justification (e.g., Roman Catholic and Eastern Orthodox) will have a different reading on baptism, but in either case will consider it important--or rather vital.

Well there is only one thing I will never be baptized for, that is to be saved. I wouldn't want to fall into that scary line of thought

To me baptism appears to be making a discipleship covenant with Jesus (cf Matthew 28:18-20), but since then discipleship and faith seem to merge in people's minds ... neglecting the disciples who turned away for instance at the end of John 6, and of course Judas.

As a covenant signing, baptism is instituted by God, but no it doesn't save you. Faith saves you -- baptism regularly starts a discipleship covenant under which Christ teaches these things like justification by faith, the importance of heart change, the place of good works, spirituality, the Kingdom of God, and so on.

__________________
"... not an unconcerned sitting of God in heaven, from which He merely observes the things that are done in the world; but that all-active and all-concerned seatedness on His throne above, by which He governs the world which He Himself hath made." John Calvin
regeneration does not act in people as if they were blocks and stones; nor does it abolish the will and its properties or coerce a reluctant will by force, but spiritually revives, heals, reforms Canons of Dordt, 1.16


"Have I become your enemy by telling the truth?" Paul

Christ ordered his Apostles to go around baptizing in the name of the Father, the Son, and the Holy Spirit.

That should be enough to convince anyone who believes on Christ that they should be baptized.