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  #51  
Unread 7th September 2011, 12:04 AM
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  #52  
Unread 7th September 2011, 12:20 AM
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Originally Posted by yam View Post
It not that serious. There are more impt things in life than looks . Today ,I was in the store shopping and one girl was complaining about how fat she is ,and she is like a size 2. Nemerous of studies has shown that men perfer women with curves.
I think it is serious - this whole topic is pretty serious. I was once passing acquaintances with someone much like your size 2 girl there in your story. I couldn't stand her because of her personality (extremely judgmental/"always right"/attention gwar/etc.), but when she said the following I just saw her for who she really was and that was.. someone with a really serious self-image problem. She said right in front of me that if she was ever a size 7, she would kill herself. She was joking and just being bratty, but I was just like "Wow, how ignorant." The truth is, she has an eating disorder. She's bulimic - which means she is unnaturally a size 4 at nearly my height. I'm tall - not the tallest gazelle out there, but taller than average for a woman in this country. I thought to myself, "Yikes," but at the same time, I'm very much like her.

I don't have an eating disorder though, but does it really matter?

I remember being unnaturally consumed by my weight when I was a teenager and I wasn't even overweight. In my head, I thought I was. I'd been looking at fashion magazines since forever, basically. To me, those women were beautiful and I wanted to be like them. I still seek out and appreciate that kind of beauty (just thank God I stopped caring about sewing even though I still care for fashion - to be in that industry would be dreadful for me). Thankfully, what helped me get past that a little was when women in sports became big and they started getting highlighted in the same magazines I was browsing. They named their physical stats and that really helped me embrace my own. Because I will never be a size 2 or even 4. Even when my corpse dries out and all that's left are bones, still won't measure at that size! And that's okay. But, it's really hard to come to a place where you really like your size - especially if you're someone who's really hard on herself. I am. That's why in the Losing Weight thread, I didn't "woo-hoo" at losing 4 lbs. That's "meh" to me. Anyone else would probably call that a success. Being pre-pregnancy would be a success to some people. At this stage, I'm looking to better myself from what transpired during my last relationship - not that I blame anyone but myself for those choices. We lived so unhealthy, but that's almost expected here. Late night drinking, even later night Taco Hell runs at 3 am - and I stopped dancing which was my cardio. But anyway, anyway..

I think that weight is something we feel like we can control. To someone with an eating disorder, the rest of their world could be falling apart but their disorder is actually what creates some order for them - and that control means everything. Whether you're talking about cutting out serious calories from your diet, throwing up after your meals and snacks or gorging on 4 value meals from McDonald's as part of your 6,000 calorie/day diet it all means control for them. That control becomes comforting. I don't believe that anyone with an eating disorder is ever content with where they're at. So, that comfort is short-lived. And the cycle must be repeated until something breaks up that destructive mindset.

To be honest, I think even the "health freaks" enjoy the amount of control that their diet and exercise regimens require. I'm not saying there's anything inherently wrong with that, but to compare it to something people here might understand, the same kind of enjoyment you may get from those things can be correlated to those with eating disorders and what they have to do to keep up with it.

I think the overall theme here should be that people need to embrace the bodies God gave us and to respect them. If we do that, there would probably not be severely obese people; there probably wouldn't be super-thin people. There would probably be slim to athletic to overweight people and we could all just shut up about complaining that we're the wrong size.

Oh and as others have probably already stated, you can have curves and still be slim. A lot of people consider curves to be the overweight parts of the body or more ample breasts or bum. (I think the loud-and-proud obese individuals are of the knee-jerk reaction to the plethora of unhealthy messages and images we are "fed" each day) But, slim women who don't have either of those can still have a slimmer midsection which emphasizes the hips more. Although I believe that beautiful people come in all shapes and sizes, I do think we're just at a really unhealthy time right now in general in this country (and I talk about this country because I don't live in any other). We're constantly bombarded with high fat "food" choices, ungodly large serving sizes (because people want to get a lot for their money) and our job choices tend to be ones where we don't get a bit of natural exertion during our day (mid-day runs to the bathroom, water cooler or fridge really don't count). In addition, when we do go home, we tend to push it with other "mental activities" like college, messageboards and the like that ensures more time is spent away from natural physical activity. To top that off, we women are still buying into these magazines, tv shows and whatever else that seem to insinuate that being skinny or slender or lithe - and only those - is beautiful. I don't doubt men do this, too. It's the only reason six packs exist because they sure aren't attractive - a bit joking on that one, but very true for me. It can be attractive... but so are shapes that aren't so skinny or slender or lithe. What about the athletic types? What about those who do naturally have a bit more "padding" on their bodies? I'm not talking severely obese or even obese, but overweight people are beautiful too and sometimes, it really can't be helped. I've met enough people in my life - and been alive myself long enough - to know that sometimes, it's a matter of putting the fork DOWN when you're full and sometimes, it's a matter of going to doctors and specialists to see what can be done and if nothing can, embrace the hell out of that body.

So many years later... after all the chicky magazines, after actually getting unhealthy, after facing my own unhealthy fixations I'd like to think I've come a long way, but even in my early 30's I have a hell of a long way to go. It's a constant battle - and maybe not constant in the way that it's with me 24/7, but at least once a week I hate how I look.. and it's not because my outfit sucks.
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  #53  
Unread 8th September 2011, 07:20 AM
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Originally Posted by Historia View Post
You want to know why people are obsessed with being skinny? Read some of the posts in this thread. Yikes.
Which ones in particular?

Originally Posted by Historia View Post


Why do women, in general, obsess about being skinny? I've been fat. I was very large from age 11 to about 31. You get treated like garbage or as if you were invisible (and asexual) if you are big. Look at this thread and the mocking bigger women are getting. No one wants to be treated like that...be treated like they are disgusting or usually seen as the sister and rarely the girlfriend. And clothing choices are more difficult (expensive and often, unattractive) the bigger you are.
I don't understand why women are narky about being seen as a friend instead of a girlfriend, or a sister - because they have a tremendous amount of extra pounds hanging around and most men don't find that attractive.

If I, as a smoker - was rejected by a non-smoker I wouldn't be concerned about it. And I wouldn't be hurt, and I certainly wouldn't get on my high horse. I'd understand - honestly. It's a nasty habit.

What makes extremes of body weight somehow different? Why should a different standard be applied?

Originally Posted by Historia View Post
Society (media, unpleasant people, family and friends even) also tells you that your worth is often tied to your size. If you are big, you are mock-worthy and don't you dare try to accept your self and love yourself even if you exercise and try to eat healthy* You must hate yourself because obviously big is not beautiful, it's horrible (disclaimer: not what I believe, but I see and hear). And women who aren't big may be horrified at the very idea of being seen as big because of how society views and treats overweight people. Heck, look at how society treats people's bodies in general. You can't win. Either you are too skinny and should eat a sandwich or you are a big ol' fatty who needs to stop with the sandwiches already. There seems to be no way to please everyone. It's lose-lose in this society that is so very messed up in regards to our bodies.
I comb my hair in the morning (what's left of it) because I wish to be presentable.

I wear clothing that isn't ripped to shreds in public because I take pride in my appearance.

People make judgements all the time based on appearance. No one deserves to be mocked - but I'm willing to bet that you might avoid, say - that disheveled looking guy who dressed himself like he didn't seem to care and well - had the stink about him as if he hadn't washed in a week. The guy clearly doesn't respect himself much. It could be *assumed* that he had some problems. You might even feel sorry for him - but you know that if you were to go out with him he'd have to take more pride in himself - decent clothes that weren't ripped to shreds and at least bathe every day.

Edit: By the way - in my drug days - I was that guy. Although I did bathe a little more often - I didn't respect myself and it came out in my appearance. I could have moaned about women not wanting to date me - but I didn't - I accepted it because I understood.

For the grossly obese - people make the same kinds of judgements - like it or not. We understand that there is probably an issue or two behind it. But like the woman who isn't interested in the guy above - that woman shouldn't be made out to be some kind of immoral monster because she's not interested in dating such a guy as I described.

So why blame the guy who isn't interested in a woman who has clearly (and not just a little) - but clearly let herself go in the weight department? Even more so - especially if he himself tries to eat healthy and she keeps bringing home fried chicken, soft drinks and maltesers?

Last edited by Stravinsk; 8th September 2011 at 07:38 AM.
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  #54  
Unread 8th September 2011, 07:54 AM
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Originally Posted by Stravinsk View Post
Which ones in particular?



I don't understand why women are narky about being seen as a friend instead of a girlfriend, or a sister - because they have a tremendous amount of extra pounds hanging around and most men don't find that attractive.

If I, as a smoker - was rejected by a non-smoker I wouldn't be concerned about it. And I wouldn't be hurt, and I certainly wouldn't get on my high horse. I'd understand - honestly. It's a nasty habit.

What makes extremes of body weight somehow different? Why should a different standard be applied?



I comb my hair in the morning (what's left of it) because I wish to be presentable.

I wear clothing that isn't ripped to shreds in public because I take pride in my appearance.

People make judgements all the time based on appearance. No one deserves to be mocked - but I'm willing to bet that you might avoid, say - that disheveled looking guy who dressed himself like he didn't seem to care and well - had the stink about him as if he hadn't washed in a week. The guy clearly doesn't respect himself much. It could be *assumed* that he had some problems. You might even feel sorry for him - but you know that if you were to go out with him he'd have to take more pride in himself - decent clothes that weren't ripped to shreds and at least bathe every day.

Edit: By the way - in my drug days - I was that guy. Although I did bathe a little more often - I didn't respect myself and it came out in my appearance. I could have moaned about women not wanting to date me - but I didn't - I accepted it because I understood.

For the grossly obese - people make the same kinds of judgements - like it or not. We understand that there is probably an issue or two behind it. But like the woman who isn't interested in the guy above - that woman shouldn't be made out to be some kind of immoral monster because she's not interested in dating such a guy as I described.

So why blame the guy who isn't interested in a woman who has clearly (and not just a little) - but clearly let herself go in the weight department? Even more so - especially if he himself tries to eat healthy and she keeps bringing home fried chicken, soft drinks and maltesers?
I think weight is different because it is not always due to choices made by the person. There are all kinds of illnesses that cause weight gain and inhibit the ability to lose weight.
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  #55  
Unread 8th September 2011, 08:47 AM
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Originally Posted by Sara Belle View Post
I think weight is different because it is not always due to choices made by the person. There are all kinds of illnesses that cause weight gain and inhibit the ability to lose weight.
I don't disagree with that at all. I do feel however (obviously this isn't a real stat, this is just a rough guess) that for every 1 person who can legitimately claim an inability to lose weight to a healthy level, there are 10 people who can and just don't do it. That's why America gets ripped on about our obesity rates.
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Unread 8th September 2011, 08:58 AM
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Originally Posted by Sara Belle View Post
I think weight is different because it is not always due to choices made by the person. There are all kinds of illnesses that cause weight gain and inhibit the ability to lose weight.
No. Not always. I have a friend who's wife had cancer. The drugs she was on caused her to gain weight.

But - food choices are usually the case, coupled with lack of exercise.

I don't need any more proof than when I go to the supermarket. The largest shoppers there generally have their baskets filled with:

Dairy products - milk, cheese, cream, ice cream etc
Soft drinks and other processed drinks
Fried corn or potato chips/fried noodles
Fatty meat and eggs
Frozen pizzas
High sugar cereals
White bread/pasta
A variety of processed foods filled with High Fructose Corn syrup, hydrogenated or partially hydrogenated oils, sugar, artificial colors and flavors, etc.

and typically low on - or entirely missing the following:

- Wholegrains - oats, wheat, brown rice etc
- vegetables (frozen or fresh)
- fruit (frozen or fresh)
- Beans (canned or dried)
- Nuts and seeds (fresh)
- lean meats
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Unread 8th September 2011, 09:46 AM
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>> Even more so - especially if he himself tries to eat healthy and she keeps bringing home fried chicken, soft drinks and maltesers?

For a lot of people I know it is not what they are eating but how much in combination with how active their lifestyle is. Not that they're sitting around doing nothing all day, or that they don't care about their physical experience, but that they're simply eating too much for what they are doing. A lot of people who feel like they can not lose the weight do have issues, but not ones which are easily treated with magic pills or simply by putting down a fork. Dove put it best, and she did it so beautifully i'm not going to repeat any of her points.

It's one thing to point the blame and say people have let themselves go, and perhaps it's true, but that rarely addresses the reasons why they've let themselves go. Is it just poor food choice, is it a security blanket, is it comfort, is it a form of self punishment, has it evolved into a compulsive disorder, an addiction? Is it treated the same way as other issues? Probably. Each issue has a band of people going "just stop doing that, you should do this, it's easy, do it", people shouting "it's OK to be like this, it's your life, stick up the middle finger and tell them to swivel", and those who want to change but have no idea how to change.

You know, I don't care about being viewed as a sister, a matron, a blooming elephant even. I care about people thinking I put little to no effort into my appearance, I care that people find it perfectly them to make snap judgments and then not even having the decency to talk to me about it. Oh, eat a salad? OK. Thank you for that wonderful advice. It's the same as making the snap judgement that someone needs to eat more because they're thin. If you're concerned about their eating habits, talk to them. If you're saying it because you can, don't.

Sometimes the fact people who are overweight, not even just morbidly obese but just a little bit overweight, are consumed with other people thinking they're disgusting, that they're sitting there thinking all these things about them, they're absolutely consumed by it. They're so consumed they can't make changes, it's an issue that needs to be tackled before they get to the point where they wont exercise for fear of the judgments people make, they wont select healthy food for fear of the comments people make. I wish I could say people see a fat person making positive changes and they're positive about it, but some people are not. Not in the least. They make it worse. I've been in the gym and have heard people commenting quite audibly about some of the larger individuals using the equipment, quite plainly stating that the individual they were talking about had to right to take away gym time from someone who wanted to do a serious workout. That people should lose weight before coming to the gym. I've heard people making very audible snarky comments about those who make healthy choices but happen to be obese. That's awful. It takes one person to make such a comment to destroy progress in someone who is not tackling their emotional issues.

Oh, not everyone has them. Not at all. Some people are very good at using such comments as motivational tools, at letting them roll off their mind like water from a ducks back. Others can't. People focus on losing weight, they focus on not being fat. They do not focus on their mind.

But that's a different topic.


Why are people obsessed with being thin?

Spoiler for personal thoughts, boom:
I, personally, happen to be obsessed with achievement and control. For years my obsession was weighing as little as possible, the smaller I was the less of me there would be for people to notice. If I controlled the food, exercise, everything, I could control my world. Just my world.

But outside of that, and as a beast now*, i'm obsessed with weighing as little as possible because that is tied up in my self worth. Fat is disgusting, being fat is disgusting. Therefore i'm disgusting. As a fat person I have no worth. People assume i'm on a diet because my preference is for raw vegetables, people assume i'm a constant gorger when I, horror of horrors, order a take-out with friends. It doesn't matter what the general population thinks, or how many people tell you that people aren't making those judgments. One person makes them, one person says its what everyone is thinking but wont say, one person is "just telling the truth" and it brings it all home. I'm disgusting and should not expect to be treated like a human being until i'm weighing as little as I can.

That is why i'm obsessed with being thin, even if i'm not thin at the moment. Because in my mind i'm worth nothing until I look like people think I should. People pay attention to my basket, they look at me and even ask whether I should be having that. I can have exactly the same food in my basket as my friend but because i'm an elephant my basket gets judged. People feel the need to give me advice on what to eat, how to eat, and really I don't need that. I do not need to feel like people are paying attention to my food choices. Do you know how much I hated people going "for a fat lass you eat healthy"? It was vile. It's the same feeling I get when people state that considering the amount of exercise I do I should be a lot skinnier than I am. It's just ... I hate it. And because this is a weight topic I can't even generalise. I, as a fat person, hate it when people comment on my eating/exercise habits, even if it is positive.

I was a full-time cashier, I beeped through food on a daily basis, 10 hours a day, 12 months a year. I did not notice a big difference between the baskets of those who were obese and those who were not. But then I didn't really pay attention, I beeped, small talked and smiled. I don't view it as any of my concern what people buy, or whether I consider it a healthy choice or not.

That, by the way, is entirely thought based. Nothing more.



TL;DR

I, personally, can't break out of the view that being fat means you're a disgusting human being. Not for everyone, it's an incredibly self focused view. For everyone else my opinion is pretty much that if they can carry out their daily activities, are not hindered by their weight in any significant way, that is their business.

People, in general, do not want to be viewed as disgusting. If some of the comments on one of the running forums is anything to go by people are far more forgiving of an "ugly" face than a body carrying extra weight. Not for everyone, but for a lot of them. Perfectly nice people, speaking truthfully on their view of fat individuals. Some mentioned health, most just mentioned how much more disgusting they found fat than faces they considered unattractive.

Not that it answers anything. Just ... it's how people think. Some people. And there is nothing wrong with that, so long as it does not cross over into changing how they treat those who do not fit the image of how people should be. Which some people allow to happen.

Last edited by Obzocky; 8th September 2011 at 09:47 AM. Reason: I should mention this is a very ill-thought out post. It's too personal. I should edit this later so it is less personal.
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Unread 8th September 2011, 10:19 AM
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Well gee, I think I might have hit a nerve or three.

Curwhibble - I never make comments to people directly in supermarkets or anywhere else. It isn't my business - but I do happen to notice what excessively overweight people put in their baskets. I use it to remind myself that that could be me. Not only overweight - but with multiple health problems due to food choices - but I suppose you didn't read my previous post on that.

People continue to make this about attractiveness/dating or whatever. That's only the surface, really.

The fact is - I've been given sour looks by women because I smoke. Don't even get me started on this when I lived in SLC, Utah (Mormon Capital, USA) - parents would huddle their children together as they passed me by on the street.

But I guess I could start a movement or something. I'm already bombarded with disgusting pictures on my packs of cigarettes, grisly commercials, ads everywhere telling me I should quit now.

There has probably been more societal and state-sponsered ads and laws against smoking cigarettes than in eating unhealthy food.

But I'm not trying to start a movement of acceptance for a nasty habit - that I realise is nasty, and that I accept is a perfectly good reason for a person to reject me as a partner.
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  #59  
Unread 8th September 2011, 10:40 AM
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Originally Posted by Sara Belle View Post
I think weight is different because it is not always due to choices made by the person. There are all kinds of illnesses that cause weight gain and inhibit the ability to lose weight.
True. My initial weight gain was due to hormonal issues with puberty.

Stravinsk, I'm not debating with you, not on this topic. Though I will say that you focus on guys not wanting to date an obese woman, but quoted me saying society hates on all women's bodies. You've probably seen pics of me from this past weekend. Some guys currently think I'm too fat. I'm the thinnest I've ever been since puberty (and looking quite fabulous, if I do say so myself, even if my hair gives me trouble sometimes). People just seem to enjoy hating on women's bodies (and increasingly, men's) and think they have the right to an opinion on bodies that don't belong to them.
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Unread 8th September 2011, 10:49 AM
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Originally Posted by Historia View Post

Stravinsk, I'm not debating with you, not on this topic. Though I will say that you focus on guys not wanting to date an obese woman, but quoted me saying society hates on all women's bodies. You've probably seen pics of me from this past weekend. Some guys currently think I'm too fat. I'm the thinnest I've ever been since puberty (and looking quite fabulous, if I do say so myself, even if my hair gives me trouble sometimes). People just seem to enjoy hating on women's bodies (and increasingly, men's) and think they have the right to an opinion on bodies that don't belong to them.
Yes, I saw the pictures of you and your new boyfriend - I thought they were quite nice and said so.

Compare that to the photo I linked to earlier in this thread. That poor guy is probably going to suffer the pain of his wife's early death and/or multiple hospital visits and skyrocketing medical bills. Lucky him, huh?
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