cause im hearing here that if a born again christian commits a sin, that sin is not forgiven until he repents. so from this i assume that if a sin is not forgiven, that means the person is going to hell, so that means that the christian lost his salvation and needs to regain it again by repenting. is this what pentecostalism teaches?
There are Pentecostals who agree with that and Pentecostals who disagree.
What I disagreed with was the idea that all our future sins are forgiven when we become believers, because that contradicts scripture. I did not say if you commit a sin and die you go to Hell. The end of I Corinthians11 comes to mind where some people had gone to 'sleep' because of not rightly regarding the Lord's body, yet they were being chastised so that they might not be condemned with the world.
Everyone who dares to post a response will probably take some criticism by someone with a differing opinion.
That could be healthy if we remember to be considerate and remember that we're not always clear as we think we are.
Let's keep in mind that P/AOG is dedicated to fellowship and not to be ovewhelmed by divisive debate.
Respectfully, we'd prefur if people without a Pentecostal icon to not initiate threads that debate our church doctrines in this forum.
We love ya all.
Smooches
__________________ Let the Scriptures Determine Your Theology, Do Not Read Your Theology into Scripture.
Last edited by Cribstyl; 9th August 2011 at 07:31 AM.
a born-again christian commits a sin but does not have time to repent because he gets killed in an accident. was his sin forgiven? or did he go to hell?
cause im hearing here that if a born again christian commits a sin, that sin is not forgiven until he repents. so from this i assume that if a sin is not forgiven, that means the person is going to hell, so that means that the christian lost his salvation and needs to regain it again by repenting. is this what pentecostalism teaches?
Throwing in my 2 cents worth.
There is a difference between sin and iniquity. Everyone sins, with our thoughts, our actions, or our lack of action. Iniquity is a pattern of deliberate sin. I don't think in your example that sin would send a believer to hell.
However, I do believe that you can walk away from your salvation. I believe you can deliberately and consciously turn your back on God, and walk away. This is a result of loving iniquity more than God. After all, Judas was given the same anointing that the other disciples were. He was a loyal follower, until he walked away, treasuring money or gain more than Jesus.
This is my opinion, and I know others disagree. I respect their opinions, and actually pray they are right, because several loved ones came to Christ, then deliberately walked away, and I would love to know they are still saved.
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Everyone who dares to post a response will probably take some criticism by someone with a differing opinion.
That could be healthy if we remember to be considerate and remember that we're not always clear as we think we are.
Let's keep in mind that P/AOG is dedicated to fellowship and not to be ovewhelmed by divisive debate.
Respectfully, we'd prefur if people without a Pentecostal icon to not initiate threads that debate our church doctrines in this forum.
We love ya all.
Smooches
as i've mentioned in my post, i am not here to debate. i am curios about pentecostalism and would like to know what it says about the issue i brought up. i am not here to convince others that they are wrong or right. all i wanted is for people to say what they believe, and help me to understand their beliefs.
hello, i have some basic questions about pentecostalism. a friend of mine likes
and wilkerson's sermons.
what does pentecostalism, specifically wilkerson/his church say about the following questions:
1. when a person TRUELY trusts in Christ for his salvation, are all his sins, including his future sins, forgiven?
2. can a born again christian loose his salvation? if yes, then how?
if you could provide links or quotes from wilkerson or his church that would be even better.
google Times Square Church and read from their statement of faith.
In the fall and sinfulness of man and that the only means of being cleansed from sin is through repentance and faith in the redeeming blood of Christ.
This statement of faith above explains that fallen man is sinful, but sins are cleansed through repentance and faith in the blood.
Many Penticostal claims these scriptures below.
Assurance of Salvation Eph 2:8For by grace are ye saved through faith; and that not of yourselves: [it is] the gift of God:
deliverance from temptation 1Cr 10:13There hath no temptation taken you but such as is common to man: but God [is] faithful, who will not suffer you to be tempted above that ye are able; but will with the temptation also make a way to escape, that ye may be able to bear [it].
forgiveness of sin
1Jo 1:9If we confess our sins, he is faithful and just to forgive us [our] sins, and to cleanse us from all unrighteousness.
__________________ Let the Scriptures Determine Your Theology, Do Not Read Your Theology into Scripture.
Last edited by Cribstyl; 8th August 2011 at 10:09 PM.
In the fall and sinfulness of man and that the only means of being cleansed from sin is through repentance and faith in the redeeming blood of Christ.
This statement of faith above explains that fallen man is sinful, but sins are cleansed through repentance and faith in the blood.
yes, i saw their website and read that statement of faith. but what does that phrase really mean? is the cleansing of sins that is necessary for salvation a one time event at regeneration and new birth, or does the person keep losing and regaining his salvation after every sin he commits and every repentance that follows?
yes, i saw their website and read that statement of faith. but what does that phrase really mean? is the cleansing of sins that is necessary for salvation a one time event at regeneration and new birth, or does the person keep losing and regaining his salvation after every sin he commits and every repentance thatfollows?
The new birth is not only a new beginning, it's also an adoption, and God does not reject us when we fall. So, no God does not have to adopt us over and over. Once we become a child of God we dont automatically become perfect and never sin. According to the scriptures, given to you by LinkH and myself, this text is written to the saved not the sinners. 1Jo 1:9If we confess our sins, he is faithful and just to forgive us [our] sins, and to cleanse us from all unrighteousness.
John's letter is written to believers. We should not sin, but if we sin, we have a high preist ready to intercede for us. The scriptures teach, that He was bruised for our transgressions. 1Jo 2:1¶My little children, these things write I unto you, that ye sin not. And if any man sin, we have an advocate with the Father, Jesus Christ the righteous:
When we look from God's persepective, we can see that only He knows everyone who will be saved in the end. When we look at what God has provided for man to be saved, we can see in our lives an ongoing struggle with sin. We can also see in our live a fight against the enemy of our soul. We can also see a race to the end of our live. According to scriptures many will lose that fight.
I did attempt to answer your question about the statement of faith: In the fall and sinfulness of man and that the only means of being cleansed from sin is through repentance and faith in the redeeming blood of Christ.
This statement of faith above explains that fallen man is sinful, but sins are cleansed through repentance and faith in the blood.
From my perspective the deals with your initial question about once saved always saved, by saying forgiveness is available for those who repent.
Respectfully
__________________ Let the Scriptures Determine Your Theology, Do Not Read Your Theology into Scripture.
There is a difference between sin and iniquity. Everyone sins, with our thoughts, our actions, or our lack of action. Iniquity is a pattern of deliberate sin. I don't think in your example that sin would send a believer to hell.
However, I do believe that you can walk away from your salvation. I believe you can deliberately and consciously turn your back on God, and walk away. This is a result of loving iniquity more than God. After all, Judas was given the same anointing that the other disciples were. He was a loyal follower, until he walked away, treasuring money or gain more than Jesus.
This is my opinion, and I know others disagree. I respect their opinions, and actually pray they are right, because several loved ones came to Christ, then deliberately walked away, and I would love to know they are still saved.
very good post ... I forgot to add about the other kinds of sins ... there are also sins of innocense ... sins of youth, etc. ... I agree, stormy ... 100 percent .. the door to salvation remains open ... the choice is ours ...
when reading your post I was reminded of the verse that says someting like woe to those who know and turn away ... (very poor wording ... just popping in) ... for me that means with knowledge comes accountability ...
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Since dave Wilkerson was Assemblies of God, and stuck pretty close to the Assemblies of God denomination (Assemblies of God (USA) Official Web Site) they're pretty representative of His "belief package" and the times Square statement of belief matches closely.And of the majority of Pentecostalism as a whole.
Note - Pentecostals in general and Wilkerson in particular are "Trinitarians". The "Oneness Pentecostals" are a very divergent group that follows their own track (and often think they're the ONLY Christians).
"1. when a person TRUELY trusts in Christ for his salvation, are all his sins, including his future sins, forgiven?"
You can't be forgiven of something that you haven't done, of course!
Salvation isn't a "One ZAP Blanket coverage" - it's a living relationship with the Lord. WHEN you sin, you Repent of it, are forgiven, and the sin is forgotten. IF you try to "Justify yourself" - then there's no restoration of relationship until you stop that foolishness.
"2. can a born again christian loose his salvation? if yes, then how?"
There is Biblical Indication that salvation CAN be lost. Generally the "Mechanism" is simple neglect. One simply gets busy with "other things", and gradually falls away - until there's nothing left that could be called "Faith" any longer.
Probably nothing "Kills" a relationship with the Lord more quickly that un-forgiveness against another. This, even when it's THEIR fault, is still YOUR responsibility to tear up the I.O.U. and release them - and yourself from that trap.
It's my EXPERIENCE (as one who did "fall away") that God DOES send "wake up calls" (sometimes pretty brutal ones) to Get the attention of the backslider.
Last edited by Bob Carabbio; 9th August 2011 at 01:56 PM.
I don't think that one can "slip away" from God, or simply be too busy, and lose salvation. I believe it has to be a deliberate turning away, a person saying, "I know what Jesus did for me. But I choose to follow the world."
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