What are the wages of sin?

Romans 6:23
For the wages of sin is death; but the gift of God is eternal life through Jesus Christ our Lord.

Please vote in the poll. Are the wages of sin death or something other than death?

This is a public poll.

Originally Posted by Timothew

Romans 6:23
For the wages of sin is death; but the gift of God is eternal life through Jesus Christ our Lord.

Please vote in the poll. Are the wages of sin death or something other than death?

This is a public poll.

This is interesting.
That greek word is different than other places for "reward/wages" use in the NT. It appears to be akin to the rations of soldiers according to a lexicon.

Young) Romans 6:23 for the wages/oywnia <3800> of the sin [is] death, and the gift of God [is] life age-during in Christ Jesus our Lord.

Strong's Number G3800 matches the Greek ὀψώνιον (opsōnion), which occurs 4 times in 4 verses in the Greek concordance of the KJV

3800. opsonion neuter of a presumed derivative of the same as 3795; rations for a soldier, i.e. (by extension) his stipend or pay:-- wages.
3795. opsarion op-sar'-ee-on neuter of a presumed derivative of the base of 3702; a relish to other food (as if cooked sauce), i.e. (specially), fish (presumably salted and dried as a condiment):--fish.

Revelation 22:12 And behold!, I am coming swiftly and the wages/misqoV <3408> of Me with Me, to render to each as the work is of Him
[Reve 22:12]

NKJV) Revelation 22:12 " And behold, I am coming quickly, and My reward/misqoV <3408> [is] with Me, to give to every one according to his work.

Strong's Number G3408 matches the Greek μισθός (misthos), which occurs 29 times in 28 verses in the Greek concordance of the KJV
AV — reward 24, hire 3, wages 2

__________________

To view links or images in signatures your post count must be 10 or greater. You currently have 0 posts.

Rich Man of Luke 16 symbolizes House of Judah, the Jews?
To view links or images in signatures your post count must be 10 or greater. You currently have 0 posts.



To view links or images in signatures your post count must be 10 or greater. You currently have 0 posts.

Why Jerusalem is Mystically Called Sodom and Egypt



To view links or images in signatures your post count must be 10 or greater. You currently have 0 posts.
.......
To view links or images in signatures your post count must be 10 or greater. You currently have 0 posts.
.....
To view links or images in signatures your post count must be 10 or greater. You currently have 0 posts.

Wages of sin ARE Death, yes- However... This poll does not take the whole of the Bible into consideration. Instead, it merely picks and chooses which Scriptures are literal and which are not.

__________________

O=-=-=O

O=-=-=O

Its an age old argument. The only thing I'll mention here is this: Do finite beings deserve an infinite fate?

Whether or not they are saved is beside the point, they do not deserve an infinite fate. We do not deserve eternal life but it is a gift from God. We do not deserve to be brutally tortured for the rest of ever, but...(fill in the blank, I will not defend this theology)

I think God will judge us, but torture without end is just cruel.

__________________
Love it will not betray you
Dismay or enslave you, it will set you free
Be more like the man you were made to be
There is a design, an alignment, a cry
Of my heart to see,
The beauty of love as it was made to be

There is a crack in everything. that's how the light gets in.

Do eternal beings not merit eternal punishment?

__________________

O=-=-=O

O=-=-=O

Quote from blog
(Individuals who say these things seem not to be understanding a very crucial fact: We humans are eternal, within a finite vessel)

If I'm eternal, why or how was I born? I do have a starting point so I'm clearly not eternal.

e·ter·nal/iˈtərnl/Adjective

1. Lasting or existing forever; without end or beginning.
2. (of truths, values, or questions) Valid for all time; essentially unchanging.

(i'm still reading the blog, just a thought that popped up)

__________________
Love it will not betray you
Dismay or enslave you, it will set you free
Be more like the man you were made to be
There is a design, an alignment, a cry
Of my heart to see,
The beauty of love as it was made to be

There is a crack in everything. that's how the light gets in.

We are eternal beings within a physical body- We were born, yes, but we existed prior to our birth.

This is not to say that reincarnation or any other such form of hooey is true; merely that Scripture states we were known prior to conception. We were birthed into temporary physical bodies, but we are eternal beings.


I will tweak the definition of eternal only slightly- We, our spirits, have no known beginning but we will exist without end.

__________________

O=-=-=O

O=-=-=O

To be an eternal being you have to 'be'. If we literally existed always, (and were not just known by God before we were born because He knows all), then why was I born and how am I responsible for the sins of Adam and Eve? It would imply that everyone who exists ever was around during Eden and that we weren't human then. Their sins should have remained their sins.

There is an idea out there called gilgul ha'ne'shamot. It can best be described as a candle lighting another candle. When a candle lights another, it gives it part of its flame. Though the second flame is of the same essence as the first candle's flame, its completely independent. This idea seems to make more sense. It would mean though that we are not eternal, as we do have a starting point.

__________________
Love it will not betray you
Dismay or enslave you, it will set you free
Be more like the man you were made to be
There is a design, an alignment, a cry
Of my heart to see,
The beauty of love as it was made to be

There is a crack in everything. that's how the light gets in.

I think I'm taking the whole of the bible into consideration, I don't think those who ignore Romans 6:23 are taking the whole of the bible into consideration. Everyone picks and chooses which scriptures are literal and which are not. Would you say Romans 6:23 is literal? If not, why not? Would you say Revelation 14:11 is literal? If so why? How about Revelation 14:10? Is that verse literal too? Can God's wrath be poured into a cup?

How about John 3:16? Literal or no?

How about we keep this in relation to the current topic, and particular posts, shall we?

First of all, Romans 6:23 comes at the end of a passage which speaks about our freedom from sin, so every related Scripture which composes that thought must be taken into account.

Furthermore, Paul states that the wages of sin is death. In Genesis 2:16-17, God tells Adam not to eat the fruit of the tree of Knowledge of Good and Evil. Specifically, He states "on that day, you will surely die." Now, neither Adam nor Eve actually died the day they ate it, did they? Well, not physically- They died spiritually, and this is the death which is spoken of in Romans 6.

That death did not mean non-existence. It meant our complete and utter separation from the source of life- God Himself. Look at the before and after picture: Prior to sin, man walked with the Creator in the Garden. They talked, probably laughed, and enjoyed one another's company. Post-fall? No talking with the Lord face to face; no walking with Him, etc. His presence was still there, as is evidenced in Genesis 4, yet the relationship was not.

In short, the relationship that God had with Adam and Eve was severed. Through the death of Christ, we are brought back into relationship with Him once more. This very concept in spoken of in Romans 5. Now that we are in Christ, though, are we sinless? No! We still fall to temptation, and not one Christian on the face of this earth can claim otherwise.

How then are we not dying, as is spoken of in Genesis and Romans? Because we are free of the CURSE of sin- Which is death. Ironically, the curse of the Law? Also death, because the law kept would prevent people from sin. When the Law was broken, it meant there was sin, and thus- Death. The curse of the Law was a physical death and the curse of sin was a spiritual death.

However...

Revelation 20 and 21 both speak of the unbelievers, those who are not found in the Book of Life, are cast into the lake of fire- The same fate as Satan, as the Beast, as the False Prophet. This is termed "the second death." It is not referred to as oblivion, destruction, non-existence, etc. It means the same as it did in Romans, and the same as it did in Genesis, only this time, it's eternal.



My earlier point is that many Christians would like to take a single verse and have it stand apart, on its own, with no further input or context from the rest of Scripture. Those who call for the execution of Atheists and Homosexuals are notorious for this. This thread appears to do the same. I didn't know how to describe my meaning with a single word, thanks to a solid week of insomnia, and ended up misusing "literal." This was my mistake, and for that, I apologize.

__________________

O=-=-=O

O=-=-=O