Differences in Religion

sandwiches · #11 12th July 2011, 10:26 AM

Originally Posted by Resha Caner

For those religious positions that are not your own, do you think they are all the same or do you see differences between them?

Put another way, which positions do you think are only separated by subtle differences and which are separated by stark differences? Do you consider an atheist the same as agnostic? A Buddhist the same as a Hindu? A Christian the same as a Zoroastrian?

Well agnosticism and atheism are not religious positions but, as for the rest, I think differ greatly even within sects and from person to person.

Resha Caner · #12 12th July 2011, 12:07 PM

Originally Posted by KCfromNC

No. I don't even consider one Christian the same as any other. That's the fun of getting "knowledge" from personal subjective feelings ... it leads to all sorts of random beliefs and no two people end up with the same ones.

We could go several different directions based on the variety of replies, but I'll pick this one. I don't completely disagree with the above quote, but I think I am looking at the consequences a bit differently ... somewhat of a "means" and "end" type approach.

Suppose we ask a group of people why they are not standing near the edge of a cliff. One might reply that he fears the wind will blow him over the edge. Another might reply that he fears the edge is not stable and will give way. Yet another may fear that he will be jostled by the crowd and pushed over the edge. All believe different things about why the cliff is dangerous, but all share the belief that it is indeed a danger.

Further suppose that for some reason the person is forced to stand near the edge of the cliff even though they consider it a danger. Again, they may look to different means of remaining safe. One may ask a friend to hold on or to stand near. Another may ask for a safety harness. Yet another may ask to shore up the cliff or to build an observation deck that is rooted in a firm foundation. Again, it could be that they look for different means to protect themselves, but that they all look to the same person to do the protecting.

Maybe. Maybe not.

So, whether or not you consider the religious to be looking for unicorns and whether or not you consider atheism a religious position, what do you think are the different things people are looking for from taking that position and who or what do they expect to provide the answer?

sandwiches · #13 12th July 2011, 12:54 PM

Originally Posted by Resha Caner

We could go several different directions based on the variety of replies, but I'll pick this one. I don't completely disagree with the above quote, but I think I am looking at the consequences a bit differently ... somewhat of a "means" and "end" type approach.

Suppose we ask a group of people why they are not standing near the edge of a cliff. One might reply that he fears the wind will blow him over the edge. Another might reply that he fears the edge is not stable and will give way. Yet another may fear that he will be jostled by the crowd and pushed over the edge. All believe different things about why the cliff is dangerous, but all share the belief that it is indeed a danger.

Further suppose that for some reason the person is forced to stand near the edge of the cliff even though they consider it a danger. Again, they may look to different means of remaining safe. One may ask a friend to hold on or to stand near. Another may ask for a safety harness. Yet another may ask to shore up the cliff or to build an observation deck that is rooted in a firm foundation. Again, it could be that they look for different means to protect themselves, but that they all look to the same person to do the protecting.

Maybe. Maybe not.

So, whether or not you consider the religious to be looking for unicorns and whether or not you consider atheism a religious position, what do you think are the different things people are looking for from taking that position and who or what do they expect to provide the answer?

I don't think all people become religious for the same reasons. Some do it looking for answers: "Where will I go when I die?," "Should I lie?," "Is cheating wrong?," "Is there any meaning to my life?," et cetera.

Others look for comfort: "God will provide for us," "The angels are watching over my children," "My grandma is in Heaven now."

Others look for help: "I need a new car," "I wish my legs would start moving again," "I want to get rid of this cancer."

Others look for validation: "Eating pork is bad. It says so right here," "I lied but as long as I repented, I'm good," "My daughter shouldn't date that girl, this book tells me I'm right."

Tinker Grey · #14 12th July 2011, 01:06 PM

I suppose the answer is as varied as the persons under consideration.

I came to my position mostly because I searched for truth. And the truth was that I had no evidence for my beliefs. Therefore I abandoned them. (Actually, in some sense I came to realize I didn't believe ... but that is a different discussion.)

I am content to believe that many people adopt religious positions because of a search for the truth.

There are some of both camps, atheists and theists, who were reared as such and have never given consideration to their positions.

There are some of both camps who adopt their positions to fit in with a group they find desirable.

For those of us who are looking for truth, I suspect that atheists/agnostics have faced the idea that some things have no answer or that we may never know that answer ... but if there is an answer to be found, it is in a careful examination of that which may be examined. Theists, OTOH, might suppose that they can never know but come to contentment because the being they worship knows it all -- knowledge/answers by proxy, perhaps.

GrowingSmaller · #15 12th July 2011, 03:48 PM

I think eveyone has a unique perspective.

AlexBP · #16 12th July 2011, 03:56 PM

Originally Posted by Resha Caner

I like the quote.

Here's a link to the entire essay form which the quote comes:

Chesterton on Mormonism and religious belief « Defensor Veritatis

Resha Caner · #17 12th July 2011, 09:58 PM

OK, some interesting thoughts on how we view others. So, now, what would you say is the one thing that others misunderstand most about your position?

P.S. Thanks for the reference, Alex. Though I've known of Chesteron for some time, I've never read his work. I have a few books on my Christmas list, though.

quatona · #18 13th July 2011, 04:20 AM

Originally Posted by Resha Caner

OK, some interesting thoughts on how we view others. So, now, what would you say is the one thing that others misunderstand most about your position?

That they consider it a position, in the first place.
That they think my lack of belief is of any significance for me.

Resha Caner · #19 13th July 2011, 10:11 AM

Originally Posted by quatona

That they consider it a position, in the first place.

Might it be because "nature abhors a vacuum?" I'm always reminded of Freewill by Rush, and especially the line, "If you choose not to decide, you still have made a choice." So, from my perspective, there is a void there to be filled and it must be filled by something.

So, I understand how one can ratchet into the mindset that it isn't a position, but it still seems to me that is not quite the right wording for it.

Since I'm looking to fill the void, I could accept a variety of answers such as "I have no opinion," or "I haven't made a conclusion," but "I have no position" sounds like denial. It seems it would require proof positive that there is no void, and I don't see how that is possible.

So, yeah, if, after what I said, you still insist you have no position, I don't understand that.

It might be akin to what I think those who differ from me most misunderstand, and that regards the request I often get to "define God." From my perspective, any statement that begins, "I think God is ..." is automatically wrong. Rather, as for any person, the statement must begin "He/she said he/she is ..."

So, it seems we both feel we're asked a question that doesn't make sense.

KCfromNC · #20 13th July 2011, 10:11 AM

Originally Posted by Resha Caner

So, whether or not you consider the religious to be looking for unicorns and whether or not you consider atheism a religious position, what do you think are the different things people are looking for from taking that position and who or what do they expect to provide the answer?

What position do you mean, exactly?

If you mean why are they looking for answers, it's probably because they have questions. How they find those answers depends on the person in question. Could be through logic and reason, tradition, observation of the natural world, feelings, or many other ways.