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  #431  
Unread 28th June 2011, 04:23 PM
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Originally Posted by Fantine View Post
Although I know very little about Fr. Corapi, it seems as if he is a modern day St. Augustine.

What a model he is for those who have struggled with addictions and sexual sins, and recovered from homelessness and gained the courage to begin a new life.

What an encouragement for parents who see their adult children struggling, knowing that the challenges God places in their path might be necessary detours in their road to sainthood.

The "goodie-goodie" saints (Therese of Lisieux, for example) are difficult for many people to relate to. The "goodie-goodie" priests and sisters who discovered their vocations after being the presidents of their sodalities in Catholic high schools are difficult for many of us to relate to.

But for many of us, someone like Fr. Corapi, who has successfully slain many more demons than most of us will ever encounter, is a sign that God's abundant grace is there...

I am sorry that he has one more cross to bear.

Do we really know what we think we know?


As I was surfing the net, I came across an article which raised a very thought provoking point brought to the fore due to the recent scandel.
"I am disturbed by how much we Catholics have let the media influence our judgement. Just because you see someone on TV, or hear him on the radio, or read his blog, doesn’t mean you truly know them. The best reaction in these situations is not to assume guilt by either party, but to pray that the truth might come out and justice served."

Do we REALLY know them?
Fr. Corapi and media’s reality distortion field

Thirty years ago someone coined the term “reality distortion field” to describe the effect on an audience when Steve Jobs made a presentation. Due to his charisma, Jobs is supposedly able to convince others of his viewpoint even when reality says otherwise. In other words, he could convince Eskimos that they need the ice-making machine he has built.

While this may or may not be true, I think there is a similar effect that occurs with every media personality. When we regularly see someone on TV, or hear him on the radio, or even read his blog, we begin to believe that we really know him personally. We believe that we have developed a relationship with this person, much like the relationships we have with our family and friends. But this is not reality: having access to someone solely via media grants us no real knowledge of a person, at least not the type of knowledge that comes from interacting with someone in person. Although we think we know him, we are in truth strangers. Of course, one can be fooled even when in close personal contact with someone, but this is much more unlikely than if our only contact is through some technological medium.

Which brings us to Fr. Corapi. As most people know by now, he has been accused of immoral behavior and has been put on administrative leave. It is also important to note that he has denied all the charges against him. What I am most surprised by, however, is how many people have strongly defended him (and attacked the accuser) in spite of only “knowing” him through his TV and radio shows. If we have learned anything over the past few years, it is that someone who is orthodox in his public preaching is not immune from personal failings and sins (which we should have known from our reading of the Bible – see St. Peter). Most of us don’t know Fr. Corapi (or the woman who is accusing him), so how can we know whether the accusation is true or not? Because he’s a good preacher?


Does this mean that whenever someone is accused of immoral behavior we should never defend him before all the facts are out? No, but it does mean that we should withhold judgement regarding people we don’t really know. If one of my good friends were accused of something like this, and he denied it, I would defend his good name until any facts contradicted his story. This is because I have built a personal trust that allows me to give him the benefit of the doubt. But if a stranger were accused and protested his innocence, I would wait until all the facts were in before forming a judgement.


....

I am disturbed by how much we Catholics have let the media influence our judgement. Just because you see someone on TV, or hear him on the radio, or read his blog, doesn’t mean you truly know them. The best reaction in these situations is not to assume guilt by either party, but to pray that the truth might come out and justice served.

Fr. Corapi and media’s reality distortion field « Divine Life – A Blog by Eric Sammons
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  #432  
Unread 28th June 2011, 05:27 PM
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I had forgotten about things that have been said about her. I agree. . . it is uncalled for and calumny.

Last edited by suzybeezy; 3rd July 2011 at 03:06 PM.
  #433  
Unread 1st July 2011, 06:35 PM
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Originally Posted by thereselittleflower View Post
I find this to be an interesting twist of scripture .


When did Paul ever take anyone to court for such things?

Where does Paul go on and on and on about the failures of such people?



I listened to Corapi's 2nd address, and he went on and on and on and on about this woman, about how horrible a drunk she was, etc, etc, etc. . most of his speach semed to be about her . .I found it revolting - and he is taking her to court .. . the way he talked about her, and how wide spread his words may become, may have compromised the case against her presumed innoncence until proven guilty and ensured she cannot get a fair trial, as she will have already been tried by public opinion based on his vitrol against her.

Did Paul do any of that? No. A single comment here or there is nothing like Corapi's rant.


What did Paul do to ensure justice was done?

According to what you posted above:
the Lord will repay him according to his deeds. - 2 Timothy 4:14

What has Corapi done?
What can a victim of false witness, libel, and poisonous gossip do?

Yes, Paul did go on about the falures many times of laypeoples. I already showed you examples of Alexander the metalworker and Philetus. Same thing with Peter and Simon Magus, and Ananias and Saphhira who dropped dead before him by trying to lie to him about their donations. The book of Revelation is around 1/3 about the failures of the laypeoples in the 7 churches in lydia


Seriously, this woman ruined this man's career by her poisonous gossip. No matter whether you like the man or not, no one deserves to have their livelihood ruined by gossip and false witness. What does St. Paul say about women who are gossips and busybodies? This woman was known to be unstable and attacked her co-workers physically. What seems to be left out of all this commenting is HOW this all began...an annonymous woman who turns out to be a disgruntled ex-employee, an alcoholic and very unstable person. who has a police record of having forced her way into the offices of this priest and physically threatened those working there as well as shouting her intentions to DESTROY Father Corapi. This is glossed over if even mentioned

Paul stated many many times about the failures of the laypeoples, like the man who slept with his fathers wife, the stubbornness of the Corinthians and the Ephesians, the judiazers, etc. The corapi case has been caused by nothing but poisonous gossip and improper canon procedures. And canon law itself states that allegations must be substantiated before a priest is tried.

Innocent till proven guilty is in canon law.

CCC “2477 Respect for the reputation of persons forbids every attitude and word likely to cause them unjust injury. He becomes guilty:
- of rash judgment who, even tacitly, assumes as true, without sufficient foundation, the moral fault of a neighbor;

- of detraction who, without objectively valid reason, discloses another’s faults and failings to persons who did not know them;
- of calumny who, by remarks contrary to the truth, harms the reputation of others and gives occasion for false judgments concerning them.”

CCC ” 2478 To avoid rash judgment, everyone should be careful to interpret insofar as possible his neighbor’s thoughts, words, and deeds in a favorable way:
Every good Christian ought to be more ready to give a favorable interpretation to another’s statement than to condemn it. But if he cannot do so, let him ask how the other understands it. And if the latter understands it badly, let the former correct him with love. If that does not suffice, let the Christian try all suitable ways to bring the other to a correct interpretation so that he may be saved.

A Bishop or Superior may indeed suspend or place a priest on leave but only with due process which includes:

1. Providing the accused with a written copy of the exact charges against him.
2. Providing the accused with a written list of the Canons he has allegedly broken.
3. Providing the accused with an Advocate.
4. The appearance of the Promoter of Justice in the case.
5. Protecting the accused priest's good name.

Corapi's Superior failed to provide Corapi with his Canonical due process before suspension and in so doing fatally compromised the case against Corapi.

Again, whether you hate the man or not, no one deserves to have their livelihood ruined or their job taken away because of unsubstantiated gossip and statements. Surely if you lost your job because of such reasons you would feel the same injustice

Last edited by StThomasMore; 1st July 2011 at 06:58 PM.
  #434  
Unread 1st July 2011, 07:26 PM
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[quote=thereselittleflower;57826987]There is no objective valid reason - the key word is objective.

He has a court case. . that is where the trial happens, not in the public eye.

There is no need for us to know the details for him to have a fair trial, actually for her to have a fair trial, for he is not being taken to court, she is.

In fact, by disclosing such details and impugning her character in such terrible ways, wether he is right about his impressions of her or not, could actually work to deny her a fair trial, for these accusations and assertions are becoming widely known, through his own efforts, and prejudice those chosen to determine her guilt or innocence.

Thus there can be NO OBJECTIVELY valid reason to disclose her sins to thsoe who did not know of them.


Revealing the content of these tapes, revealing her character flaws, her sins, DOES NOT PROVE his innocence. It makes him look vindictive, self serving, and cruel.[quote/]

It went public because all cases against priests go public since the media spotlight is already on the Church regarding priests in scandals. Secondly this was all started by the allegations of this unknown woman. The issues of bringing up this woman's character does have importance, as if it is proven she is mentally unstable, which from reports it shows she is as she was known to attack employees and make threats. If she was mentally unstable everything changes regarding her case. She may have been consumed with revenge regarding the issue with her job with him or her employers. But you cross the line when you seek to ruin someones job and career by actively promoting libel and slander in order to get back and someone.

Don't cry if you liberal and slander someone and end up in court for it. People take each other to court for defamation all the time.



  #435  
Unread 1st July 2011, 07:28 PM
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[quote=StThomasMore;57917172]
Originally Posted by thereselittleflower View Post
There is no objective valid reason - the key word is objective.

He has a court case. . that is where the trial happens, not in the public eye.

There is no need for us to know the details for him to have a fair trial, actually for her to have a fair trial, for he is not being taken to court, she is.

In fact, by disclosing such details and impugning her character in such terrible ways, wether he is right about his impressions of her or not, could actually work to deny her a fair trial, for these accusations and assertions are becoming widely known, through his own efforts, and prejudice those chosen to determine her guilt or innocence.

Thus there can be NO OBJECTIVELY valid reason to disclose her sins to thsoe who did not know of them.


Revealing the content of these tapes, revealing her character flaws, her sins, DOES NOT PROVE his innocence. It makes him look vindictive, self serving, and cruel.[quote/]

It went public because all cases against priests go public since the media spotlight is already on the Church regarding priests in scandals. Secondly this was all started by the allegations of this unknown woman. The issues of bringing up this woman's character does have importance, as if it is proven she is mentally unstable, which from reports it shows she is as she was known to attack employees and make threats. If she was mentally unstable everything changes regarding her case. She may have been consumed with revenge regarding the issue with her job with him or her employers. But you cross the line when you seek to ruin someones job and career by actively promoting libel and slander in order to get back and someone.

Don't cry if you liberal and slander someone and end up in court for it. People take each other to court for defamation all the time.


You mean libel?
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  #436  
Unread 1st July 2011, 07:43 PM
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[quote=Michie;57917184]
Originally Posted by StThomasMore View Post
You mean libel?
lol that word tends to be ingraved in many catholics minds lol
  #437  
Unread 1st July 2011, 07:48 PM
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[quote=StThomasMore;57917252]
Originally Posted by Michie View Post

lol that word tends to be ingraved in many catholics minds lol
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  #438  
Unread 2nd July 2011, 06:18 AM
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Originally Posted by StThomasMore View Post
What can a victim of false witness, libel, and poisonous gossip do?
Wait a moment.

How do you know she gave false witness?

How do you KNOW one way or the other?


You don't. NONE of us do.

For you to say she gave false witness, lilbel, and poisonous gossip is itsleff calumny or at best destraction.

YOU DO NOT KNOW.

And she did NOT gossip about anything. Letters were sent to Bishops. That is not gossip.

But what you are saying above IS gossip.

It was Fr Corapi himself who made it public knowledge what he was accused of and it was FR CORAPI who made public HIS allegations against her.


Please, don't act as if you know what is secret and hidden.


Yes, Paul did go on about the falures many times of laypeoples. I already showed you examples of Alexander the metalworker and Philetus. Same thing with Peter and Simon Magus, and Ananias and Saphhira who dropped dead before him by trying to lie to him about their donations. The book of Revelation is around 1/3 about the failures of the laypeoples in the 7 churches in lydia


Seriously, this woman ruined this man's career by her poisonous gossip.
First, PRIVATE LETTERS to Bishops are NOT gossip. You are maligning someone who you have no true idea is even lying.

Second, she did not ruin his career - and what a way to refer to the priesthood. The priesthood is not a "career" no more than beinga husband is a "career" . . it is a way of life. . .

Who ruined this? He did by not submitting to the Church's authority and following in the footsteps of saints such as St John of the Cross, St Pio, etc, and accept the Church disciplines imposed, and carry his cross, which could have born UNTOLD FRUIT in his life and the lives of others.

He was given a precious gift, to walk in Jesus' footsteps - and what did Jesus do when falsely accused? He opened not his mouth. Yet Fr Corapi tossed this gift to the wayside and is doing it "my way"



And this is it in a nutshell.
  #439  
Unread 2nd July 2011, 06:30 AM
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Originally Posted by StThomasMore View Post

It went public because all cases against priests go public since the media spotlight is already on the Church regarding priests in scandals.
It went public because FR CORAPI MADE IT PUBLIC and for no other reason.


It is his fault and his fault only at this point it went public.


Secondly this was all started by the allegations of this unknown woman. The issues of bringing up this woman's character does have importance, as if it is proven she is mentally unstable, which from reports it shows she is as she was known to attack employees and make threats. If she was mentally unstable everything changes regarding her case. She may have been consumed with revenge regarding the issue with her job with him or her employers. But you cross the line when you seek to ruin someones job and career by actively promoting libel and slander in order to get back and someone.

Don't cry if you liberal and slander someone and end up in court for it. People take each other to court for defamation all the time.
First, she made nothing public.. . Fr Corapi did. All of it.

Bringing up the woman's personal failings in public SERVES NO LEGITIMATE PURPOSE . it is either calumny or detraction . . . the public has NO NEED to know ANY of this. The public is not her judge and jury . .. the court room is not on the internet etc.

One cannot make something private known and then compound the problem by making more private information known and then say "Oh, but I had to defend myself in the public eye . . " One cannot create the situation in the public eye then say that revealing more private information is necessary . . .

That, my friend, IS calumny or detraction - on Fr Corapi's part.
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Unread 2nd July 2011, 06:48 AM
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Originally Posted by thereselittleflower View Post
Wait a moment.

How do you know she gave false witness?

How do you KNOW one way or the other?


You don't. NONE of us do.

For you to say she gave false witness, lilbel, and poisonous gossip is itsleff calumny or at best destraction.

YOU DO NOT KNOW.

And she did NOT gossip about anything. Letters were sent to Bishops. That is not gossip.

But what you are saying above IS gossip.

It was Fr Corapi himself who made it public knowledge what he was accused of and it was FR CORAPI who made public HIS allegations against her.


Please, don't act as if you know what is secret and hidden.




First, PRIVATE LETTERS to Bishops are NOT gossip. You are maligning someone who you have no true idea is even lying.

Second, she did not ruin his career - and what a way to refer to the priesthood. The priesthood is not a "career" no more than beinga husband is a "career" . . it is a way of life. . .

Who ruined this? He did by not submitting to the Church's authority and following in the footsteps of saints such as St John of the Cross, St Pio, etc, and accept the Church disciplines imposed, and carry his cross, which could have born UNTOLD FRUIT in his life and the lives of others.

He was given a precious gift, to walk in Jesus' footsteps - and what did Jesus do when falsely accused? He opened not his mouth. Yet Fr Corapi tossed this gift to the wayside and is doing it "my way"



And this is it in a nutshell.
Thank the Lord the justice system doesn't work that way. As in your world it seems people are guilty before proven innocent. There is no justice in that. If you honestly believe that, then you should move to a communist country where people are given no proper defense.

Have these allegations been proven?

No

Since the allegations months ago, have they been able to prove anything?

No

Does this woman have a history of being unstable and making vows to ruin corapi?

Yes

Did this woman threaten the priest and attack her coworkers?

Yes


Its easy to add 2 plus 2. Any competent lawyer can see this is employee based retaliation



Innocent till proven guilty? That's how justice works. Until its proven, he is innocent of the charges and should be deemed as innocent. And based on how long it has taken and still none of her statements have been proven or been shown to have any credibility or weight behind them. Her history shows she was a woman who was consumed with revenge for Corapi, at any costs. She herself told him she was gonna ruin him. The bishop, afraid of scandal decided to cut him off too soon, probably due to the media spotlight and worrying that he would be labeled as a bishop who 'shuffled priests'. The media spotlight has had an enourmous influence on Corapi's case. Corapi is in the position he is in because of improper canon procedures and the influence of the recent sex scandals in the Church, as all cases regarding priests are in the spotlight. A fallen or troubled priest is like gold for the US media, and they are always on the lookout for them like wolves being ready to pounce, considering the media hates the Church and does everything in its power to smear them. Add that on with the internet and blogs and Corapi's fan base. This is why it went public. I cannot remember a case against a priest that hasn't gone public.

And I didn't say the priesthood was a career. But part of Corapi's ministry was his livelihood and what he lived for. No one, whether it be a vocation or career deserves to have their livelihood taken away from them from unsubstantiated statements and libelous letters.

The woman dug herself in her own hole. She instigated the whole thing. Now she must dig herself out of her own hole she created. Without her, Corapi would have done what he normally would have done, preach. So to say this has happened because of him doesn't make any sense. The thousands of people who listened to him cannot listen to him anymore and receive spiritual consolation from his preaching. The people who listened to him and found spiritual consolation will not have this anymore, which could cause spiritual damage for thousands of people.

Last edited by StThomasMore; 2nd July 2011 at 07:03 AM.
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