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  #1  
Old 11th June 2011, 06:39 PM
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Question What does religion mean and what did Jesus say about it??

I keep reading articles saying that Jesus was against religion (traditions of man) I need help understanding why he was against religion and what religions actually means? The article I was reading put (traditions of man) in front of the word religion. So I'm assuming religion means the traditions of man but if that's the case what traditions of man are they talking about? I know this is a stupid question but I am a new christian and I get confused when I see this topic.
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Old 11th June 2011, 07:11 PM
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Jesus was not against religion, He started a religion, He was against self-righteous and godless laws disguised as pious but in truth were against the heart of the true God. I know we hear it all the time, but it is true, Christianity is a personal religion and relationship with God through Jesus Christ, it is not about keeping laws, observances, prayer, going to church or fasting(all though these things can be a part of it). It is about believing God and trusting in Jesus Christ as your own personal Lord and Saviour. God desires truth in the inward parts (your heart) and not just in outward actions (the pharisees).
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Old 11th June 2011, 07:18 PM
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Religion will bind you up in guilt - a personal relationship with Jesus will free you to be a witness and servant of the Lord Jesus Christ.

Man made laws and different religions is what is called 'religion' - For instance - I was raised in a 'religion' that had beliefs of a whole bunch of don'ts - they were so busy telling you what you can't do that they did not emphasis what God can do.

Just put your hand in the hand of Jesus and let the Holy Spirit lead you and don't get caught up in all the 'don'ts' - just remember when Jesus ascended into Heaven, he left us with only 2 commandments - Have no other God's before me - Love your neighbor as yourself - if you just concentrate on those two commandments - they will cover all the rest.

Just let Jesus be your friend and walk side by side with you and turn a deaf ear to all the do's and don'ts that will be sent your way.
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Old 11th June 2011, 07:45 PM
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Originally Posted by javierc87 View Post
I keep reading articles saying that Jesus was against religion (traditions of man)
Jesus was not against religion or traditions of man. In modern Christianity, there is a popular movement away from being Christian...

It's true that Christianity is essentially having faith in Jesus as your savior. But, keeping laws (not sinning), praying, fasting, going to church, and so on, are all part of being a Christian.

Someone who says he is good but doesn't do anything good is not good. Someone who say he has faith in Jesus, but doesn't live as a follower of Jesus, is not someone who does have faith in Jesus.

Romans 6:4 Therefore we were buried with Him by baptism into death, in order that, just as Christ was raised from the dead by the glory of the Father, so we too may walk in a new way of life.

Again, Jesus was not against religion. He was against the religious HYPOCRISY of the Jews of his day. Religion doesn't "bind you up in guilt". What does that even mean? That you'll feel guilty if you go to church on Sunday? Ridiculous.

If you do something wrong, you should feel guilty, and then you should repent.

Someone might tell you that all you have to do is love your neighbor, but if you're love isn't perfect, then you're going to fail. How do you love your neighbor? By not lying, by not murdering, by not coveting... also, by helping him when he's in need.

Jesus also said you must love God. How do you love God? By praying, by going to church to worship Him, by fasting... also by loving your neighbor, which is where the previous command comes from.

BTW, Jews are not God's chosen people.
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Old 11th June 2011, 08:03 PM
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Speaking of tradition:

Matthew 15:5-7 But you [Jews] say, "If anyone tells his father or his mother, 'What I would have given to you, I gave to God instead,' he need not honor his father." So for the sake of your tradition you have made void the word of God. You hypocrites! Well did Isaiah prophesy of you, when he said...

The law says (in the Ten Commandments) that you must honor your father and mother. Jesus condemned the Jews for failing to follow the law. Jesus condemned the bad tradition that was their excuse to not follow the law. See, it's not tradition that Jesus condemns, it's just bad tradition that got in the way of keeping the law that is condemned.

Christians are told to keep tradition:

2 Thessalonians 2:15 Therefore, brothers, stand firm and hold to the traditions you were taught, either by our message or by our letter.
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Old 12th June 2011, 10:17 AM
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Originally Posted by NvxiaLee View Post
Jesus was not against religion or traditions of man. In modern Christianity, there is a popular movement away from being Christian...

It's true that Christianity is essentially having faith in Jesus as your savior. But, keeping laws (not sinning), praying, fasting, going to church, and so on, are all part of being a Christian.

Someone who says he is good but doesn't do anything good is not good. Someone who say he has faith in Jesus, but doesn't live as a follower of Jesus, is not someone who does have faith in Jesus.

Romans 6:4 Therefore we were buried with Him by baptism into death, in order that, just as Christ was raised from the dead by the glory of the Father, so we too may walk in a new way of life.

Again, Jesus was not against religion. He was against the religious HYPOCRISY of the Jews of his day. Religion doesn't "bind you up in guilt". What does that even mean? That you'll feel guilty if you go to church on Sunday? Ridiculous.

If you do something wrong, you should feel guilty, and then you should repent.

Someone might tell you that all you have to do is love your neighbor, but if you're love isn't perfect, then you're going to fail. How do you love your neighbor? By not lying, by not murdering, by not coveting... also, by helping him when he's in need.

Jesus also said you must love God. How do you love God? By praying, by going to church to worship Him, by fasting... also by loving your neighbor, which is where the previous command comes from.

BTW, Jews are not God's chosen people.
You are confusing what I am saying - I am not saying not to go to church - but I am saying that all the man made rules in churches causes guilt - believe me I know what I am talking about - I was raised with 'religion' - church is not religion - we are the church. I was raised with so many 'don'ts' that I carried guilt all the time.

What I am saying is find a church that teaches the Bible and not man made laws, have the freedom to worship without guilt - God looks upon the heart. I have been a Christian all my life, but sad to say not until about 15 years ago did I know the freedom of religion and turned from 'religion' to a personal relationship with Jesus - there is a world of difference. This is not moving away from being a Christian - it is bringing God's love to each and every person and being the servant that our loving God would have us be.

Take away the teachings of - it is a sin to do many every day things, which I won't name because there are many here raised that way, - but replace it with Jesus show me what you would have me do, who to help, how to serve and forget all the guilt ridden don'ts that some put on us.
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Old 12th June 2011, 11:06 AM
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Hi Javier,

There's nothing wrong with religion, per se, but the problem is that it plays to our natural fallen man. Religion sets up a structure of dos and don’ts that enable us to judge ourselves and others, whereas Jesus said that "there is none good, but God".

The problem is that we make lousy judges. We tend to minimize our own sin and maximize others'. This is false pride. Or conversely, sometimes we become our own harshest judge, and this leads to pathologies such as depression and self-hatred.

And then there's the religious spirit. This is where religion takes on a life of its own within us. We think that if we give alms, go to church or synagogue, pray often, etc, we have made the grade. Religion becomes an outer shell that we keep in fine polish for ourselves and others to look at, while the true inner man is untouched by God.

So while the dictates of religion are generally good, Jesus came, not for religion, but for relationship, because without a vital relationship with Jesus religion is going to work death, not life, in us.
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Old 12th June 2011, 11:26 AM
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Originally Posted by SharonL View Post
You are confusing what I am saying - I am not saying not to go to church - but I am saying that all the man made rules in churches causes guilt - believe me I know what I am talking about - I was raised with 'religion' - church is not religion - we are the church. I was raised with so many 'don'ts' that I carried guilt all the time.
That still makes no sense. Our lives are government by man-made rules, that we should follow unless they conflict with a higher rule. Jesus did not object to man-made rules, except when they conflicted with higher rules. Every Church and Christian forum has a pile of rules. The government has countless rules, way too many, called laws.

It's impossible not to have man-made rules and it's insane to think they shouldn't exist. Do you think you should disregard the law, and not obey authorities God has instituted for your own good?

How do rules make you feel guilty? Because you violate them? You should feel guilty.

Your "no rules" claim makes absolutely no sense. In fact, your position looks totally hypocritical to me. You don't want to obey God's laws, because it's not the man-made laws that you're really objecting to. You say you object to "Man made laws", then you explain it by saying you "turned from religion".

The claim "Christianity isn't a religion..." is complete nonsense.
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Old 12th June 2011, 11:41 AM
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Originally Posted by paul1149 View Post
Hi Javier,

There's nothing wrong with religion, per se, but the problem is that it plays to our natural fallen man. Religion sets up a structure of dos and doníts that enable us to judge ourselves and others, whereas Jesus said that "there is none good, but God".

The problem is that we make lousy judges. We tend to minimize our own sin and maximize others'. This is false pride. Or conversely, sometimes we become our own harshest judge, and this leads to pathologies such as depression and self-hatred.

And then there's the religious spirit. This is where religion takes on a life of its own within us. We think that if we give alms, go to church or synagogue, pray often, etc, we have made the grade. Religion becomes an outer shell that we keep in fine polish for ourselves and others to look at, while the true inner man is untouched by God.

So while the dictates of religion are generally good, Jesus came, not for religion, but for relationship, because without a vital relationship with Jesus religion is going to work death, not life, in us.
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Old 12th June 2011, 11:45 AM
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Originally Posted by NvxiaLee View Post
That still makes no sense. Our lives are government by man-made rules, that we should follow unless they conflict with a higher rule. Jesus did not object to man-made rules, except when they conflicted with higher rules. Every Church and Christian forum has a pile of rules. The government has countless rules, way too many, called laws.

It's impossible not to have man-made rules and it's insane to think they shouldn't exist. Do you think you should disregard the law, and not obey authorities God has instituted for your own good?

How do rules make you feel guilty? Because you violate them? You should feel guilty.

Your "no rules" claim makes absolutely no sense. In fact, your position looks totally hypocritical to me. You don't want to obey God's laws, because it's not the man-made laws that you're really objecting to. You say you object to "Man made laws", then you explain it by saying you "turned from religion".

The claim "Christianity isn't a religion..." is complete nonsense.
\This conversation is going nowhere and will be of no help to the OP - I am not talking about government laws - I am talking about - don't go to movies, don't dance, don't wear slacks, don't, don't - don't - all these rules made up in the churches. For a new Christian reading his request for help finds posts likes these will not be of any help to them at all. I refrain from any further posting in this request for help.
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