Hi paintedgoldfish, just some thoughts.... When I was in those situations, I didn't necessarily feel loved by God, I just trusted that he did, and that his love would be proved by things getting better, which they did eventually (but not necessarily how I asked or hoped). It must be easier for people to trust, who, like me had a safe childhood - thinking about psychology here. A church leader won't necessarily have the answers for that, and you can get hurt looking for those answers from the wrong people.
It just doesn't seem logical that God would favour some people over others; either he is kind and loving or he isn't. I'm not wagging a finger at you for thinking that, only a person can get confused pictures of God from people's interpretations; I mean, it can make your head spin trying to work out which is right! Hang in there and keep an open mind maybe? It sounds like you would like to believe in the good things you've been told on one hand, the peace etc, but are having a hard time really accepting it could be true for you. That sounds really natural. I wouldn't think that issues like that could be cleared up, done and dusted, in a short time. Give God time to show you he can be trusted, perhaps. Maybe he has people to lead you to, maybe they won't be who or what you expect.
I wish you all the best
__________________ “Eyes that look are common, eyes that see are rare.” Plato
As some of you may know, I am a new Christian. I am trying to understand what kind of relationship God has with us? Where is God in our lives?
My partner told me how she was beaten by her mother everyday of her life until she was kicked out and homeless at sixteen. She said that while her mother beat her, she would pray to God over and over, and ask him to make the beatings stop. He never did. After a while she changed her prayer and asked God to let her die.
Does she desire to live a godly life? Does she have desire for God? She did well to pray to God to let her die rather than contemplating suicide (Elijah and Jonah also prayed to God to let them die when they felt suicidal).
Persecutions can range from outsiders attacking a person to his closest friends attacking him, even to his family members attacking him.
2 Tim. 3:12 Indeed, all who desire to live godly in Christ Jesus will be persecuted.
Mark 10:30 but that he will receive a hundred times as much now in the present age, houses and brothers and sisters and mothers and children and farms, along with persecutions; and in the age to come, eternal life.
Given her situation, I'm pretty sure that she had desire for God.
So why didn't He do anything?
Originally Posted by paintedgoldfish
I can't expect anyone to know the mind of God and to be able to say why he did not help her, but she learned from that experience that God can not be trusted to help in times of need and that there really is no God.
There are multiple possible reasons including:
-lack of persistence (Luke 11:1-5)
-lack of dedication (i.e. fasting)
-lack of desire for God's kingdom, that is, establishment of godly peace in this world (Matt. 6:33)
All I know is that God looks for desire (1 Samuel 16:7, Matt. 15:18-20, 2 Tim. 4:8).
If a prayer isn't being unanswered, it either means that the suffering is God's will as it will potentially lead to a brighter future or the prayer is the aforementioned reasons.
Originally Posted by paintedgoldfish
Is God distant from us, turning his face away from those in need, or does he have his hand in our lives in every way?
Well, God does dwell with the humble (Isaiah 57:16) and hears the prayers of the humble (John 9:31, Acts 10:34-35, Dan. 9-10, Luke 1:28-31). But was your partner ever prideful? Any pride problems?
Jesus had more concern for His disciples than even His own mother and brothers (Matt. 12:48-50) because they did the will of God.
If not, then it could be just that suffering is in God's will. Matt. 5:3-11, Job 42, Matt. 19:29.
Originally Posted by paintedgoldfish
I know we are all suposed to have free will. Many people have told me that it is our free will that allows sin and God does not interfer with free will. But, in the case of my partner, her free will was stripped from her and the experience colors a lifelong perspective.
Dosen't God know everything and isn't everything part of his plan? How much of life is free will when God already knows the choices you will make? Does having a plan mean that God turns his back on those who he knows will never come to him?
God is our father, right? So why is it that I would do anything to save my children from harm, especially if they were crying out for help and it was within my power to protect them, yet God is able to turn away while his children suffer?
God is an intervening God (often conditional) who can change the future (2 Kings 20:1-6, Jeremiah 18:7-10, 2 Chronicles 7:13-14, Job 34:14-15), even His own. This is the answer to the free will/omniscience dilemma.
But He usually only does so when one repents. There is a possibility that persecutions, testing, etc. can be God's way of communicating with a person, to get them to repent with the blood of Jesus (1 Peter 1:2, 22-23).
__________________ John 8:24 unless you believe that I am He, you will die in your sins.”
Luke 13:3, 5 unless you are repentant, you will... perish.
Matthew 18:3 and said, “Truly I say to you, unless you... become like children, you will not enter the kingdom of heaven.
This just seems to ask to much, given that she was a child when this happened to her. She was abused from a young age by unhealthy adults. From where would she learn perseverence, dedication, humility, even repentence? Letting a child be beaten doesn't seem the best avenue to get them to 'repent' and turn to God!
__________________ “Eyes that look are common, eyes that see are rare.” Plato
This just seems to ask to much, given that she was a child when this happened to her. She was abused from a young age by unhealthy adults. From where would she learn perseverence, dedication, humility, even repentence? Letting a child be beaten doesn't seem the best avenue to get them to 'repent' and turn to God!
Agreed^^^
__________________ Mattew 25:45 “He will reply, ‘Truly I tell you, whatever you did not do for one of the least of these, you did not do for me.’
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As some of you may know, I am a new Christian. I am trying to understand what kind of relationship God has with us? Where is God in our lives?
My partner told me how she was beaten by her mother everyday of her life until she was kicked out and homeless at sixteen. She said that while her mother beat her, she would pray to God over and over, and ask him to make the beatings stop. He never did. After a while she changed her prayer and asked God to let her die.
I can't expect anyone to know the mind of God and to be able to say why he did not help her, but she learned from that experience that God can not be trusted to help in times of need and that there really is no God.
Is God distant from us, turning his face away from those in need, or does he have his hand in our lives in every way?
I know we are all suposed to have free will. Many people have told me that it is our free will that allows sin and God does not interfer with free will. But, in the case of my partner, her free will was stripped from her and the experience colors a lifelong perspective.
Dosen't God know everything and isn't everything part of his plan? How much of life is free will when God already knows the choices you will make? Does having a plan mean that God turns his back on those who he knows will never come to him?
God is our father, right? So why is it that I would do anything to save my children from harm, especially if they were crying out for help and it was within my power to protect them, yet God is able to turn away while his children suffer?
These are the questions everyone asks at some point or other I think. I cant say I know the answers, but would like to share one experience with you,
It was after a major devastating earthquake near me, and which killed people, and I was in bed and prayed asking god to show me why he would allow this awful thing to happen
I was lead to this passage in the bible:
Its the first thing I marked out in pen in my bible:
Originally Posted by The Bible NLT
All praise to God, the Father of our Lord Jesus Christ. God is our merciful Father and the source of all comfort. 4 He comforts us in all our troubles so that we can comfort others. When they are troubled, we will be able to give them the same comfort God has given us. 5 For the more we suffer for Christ, the more God will shower us with his comfort through Christ. 6 Even when we are weighed down with troubles, it is for your comfort and salvation! For when we ourselves are comforted, we will certainly comfort you. Then you can patiently endure the same things we suffer. 7 We are confident that as you share in our sufferings, you will also share in the comfort God gives us.
(2 Corinthians 1:3-7)
In particular it was
Originally Posted by The Bible NLT
He comforts us in all our troubles so that we can comfort others. When they are troubled, we will be able to give them the same comfort God has given us.
Anyway at the time this was happening, there were a lot of stories coming out about the way people were looking after each other, and the generosity and love people were showing towards total strangers.
I realized that unfortunately, in normal times, people do not show that love and generosity, its often when a disaster happens that the true human spirit and love comes out.
The next day was Sunday and when I walked into church, (my church is a charismatic church), a man in the congregation spoke out something that god had laid on him, and it was the EXACT same passage of the bible. Coincidence maybe - but how many books and verses in the bible, statistically whats the chance?
If you look at historical events, and even your own experiences of times of struggle and trouble, I bet you will find that among the memories of how bad it was, you will have memories of people really stepping up to look out for you or whoever was in need, and maybe you had some revelations about people that you may have written off as selfish, snobby, whatever, who really came though and made you realise they were much more than you had ever thought of them.
While it is sad that it takes tragedy to bring out these things, I guess if I were god and I had 2 options:
1: Let tragic things happen, and as a result x number of people are killed or lose someone or lose a home, or living or whatever, and also x number of people are saved
2: Not let tragic thing happen, everyone keeps their house or income, and no one dies. But in the long run, the x number of people that are saved in 1 are lost because they do not become christians because they are not moved by the love shown in a bad situation, or not moved to pray to god themselves for help.
Many of the stories I have seen already about people being saved, - tend to be about the person being saved at a desperate or low point in their life. I haven't seen many that said 'I was earning lots of money, had a great family, and job, lots of friends, and an exciting interesting life..... so I knew I needed god...' When all is going smoothly we think we are doing fine as we are. If we accepted Christ at that time we would realize that even then we were not really doing that fine - but thing is we don't tend to ask for help cos we don't think we need it, or god. Its when it all turns to a big steaming pile of the brown stuff that we start to cry out of help, and question the purpose of our existence
I haven't seen many that said 'I was earning lots of money, had a great family, and job, lots of friends, and an exciting interesting life..... so I knew I needed god...'
LOL, this is so true!
I've been through all sorts of things in my life, but for some reason, I've never questioned God about why He would allow things to happen or why he wouldn't directly intervene. To me, the question of evil and God's non-intervening is explained by the concept of free will given to us as his creation. And that is explained by the idea of love - there can be no perfect love without perfect freedom.
While we may have to go through ordeals due to others' abuse of their God-given freedom, that does not diminish God's love for us, and in fact, it is God who sustains us through it all. The New Testament promise is not that we will live lives entirely out of harm's way, but that we will have His help when we do end up in difficult situations, which we all eventually do.
So true Sealacamp and I have noticed the same thing happens to bible passages. It makes me wonder why God is not more clear as to what he wants and who he is? Why doesn't he provide more clearity to his message? I am sure that if my partner had recieved help from God, she would indeed be serving him today. Why does it seem like God hides himself from some of us?
I don't know but it does seem that way, although I really believe that is a matter of our perception since He is really with us all along. Many times we don't recognize it, and some people never realize this at all.
Remember this from the old testament?
“Don’t be afraid!” Elisha told him. “For there are more on our side than on theirs!” Then Elisha prayed, “O Lord, open his eyes and let him see!” The Lord opened the young man’s eyes, and when he looked up, he saw that the hillside around Elisha was filled with horses and chariots of fire.
So throughout time this has always been the case, God and His angels are all around us all the time, we just don't realize it and we can't see them, yet they are there. Just as this passage illustrates for when the young mans eyes were open he could see that they were surrounded by angels and they had been there all the time, unseen.
The earthquake story reminded me of something I heard mathemetician/philosopher John Lennox say when there was an earthquake in this country - he said, people ask why God allows natural disasters, but in his studied opinion, God has put this world together in exactly the way it needs to be to sustain life. Plate tectonics are an integral part of this life sustaining (he says, don't ask me how), but plate tectonics inevitably involve earthquakes - God could not have made the world with plate tectonics but not earthquakes, or made a life-sustaining planet without plate tectonics - that you can't say God is all-powerful and could have made the world differently, that God works within parameters bound by physis - ie. He is bound by physics. It sounds logical.
The point I am making, of course, is not about why God allows earthquakes, but the fact that He may be bound to natural laws - and that the same would apply for social/mental/internal laws. So, in order for us to have free will and not be robots, to have an actual relationship with him and each other, we have to have the capacity for both good and bad. But if we as a species have the capacity for bad, the natural consequence is that bad will happen (along with good). This is not something God can change, if we are to remain human.
What if, when the Genesis creation story illustrates the Fall of humankind, which is, when people gained the consciousness of good and evil, it is an analogy of the moment humans evolved from animals into humans - it would mean we cannot be human without that choice between good and evil. God would have known that, and known that to have the human species and relate to them, good and bad would be done in the world. Once he made that choice, there would be no turning back, and, maybe, He has limited influence in that sense.
__________________ “Eyes that look are common, eyes that see are rare.” Plato
As some of you may know, I am a new Christian. I am trying to understand what kind of relationship God has with us? Where is God in our lives? 
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