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  #281  
Unread 9th June 2011, 06:23 AM
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Originally Posted by CTD View Post
And it is correct to keep in mind that "God never did anything" is one whoppin' big presupposition!
AMEN to that!
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  #282  
Unread 9th June 2011, 06:46 AM
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Originally Posted by Cabal View Post
I'm not entirely sure what kind of experiment would suffice here. Flood a control earth?
I have Slartibartfast's e-mail if anyone is interested in doing so.

Originally Posted by Mikecpking View Post
How does the white cliifs of Dover show a single one event flood? Do you know what rocks lie underneath those white cliffs? Greensand which shows a complete different environment and underneath that, Jurrassic limestone...sorry, but that is not evidence.
It's even worse than that for AV. The cocolithophores descend in calm water, not the turbid water one would expect in a flood. They descend very slowly meaning accumluation takes a long time. They are microscopic meaning accumulation takes an even longer time. They also are made from calcium absorbed from ocean water and if all the calcium that formed the White Cliffs was in that water at once, it would have the consistency of a milkshake.
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  #283  
Unread 9th June 2011, 06:48 AM
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Originally Posted by CTD View Post
And it is correct to keep in mind that "God never did anything" is one whoppin' big presupposition!
It´s a logical conclusion from a presupposition made by Christian theology itself: Namely, that God is eternal, beyond time and space, unchanging.
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  #284  
Unread 9th June 2011, 06:54 AM
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Originally Posted by USincognito View Post
It's even worse than that for AV. The cocolithophores descend in calm water, not the turbid water one would expect in a flood. They descend very slowly meaning accumluation takes a long time. They are microscopic meaning accumulation takes an even longer time. They also are made from calcium absorbed from ocean water and if all the calcium that formed the White Cliffs was in that water at once, it would have the consistency of a milkshake.
Quite. Even worse for him further, the chalk in the Dorset/Hampshire basin is overlain by gravels, sandstone beds and there is no satifactory creationist argument to explain this. I would love to take any of these guys to a trip to the Jurrasic coast walk in Dorset and get them to try and wriggle out of the evidence on display.

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  #285  
Unread 9th June 2011, 07:33 AM
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Originally Posted by USincognito View Post
The cocolithophores descend in calm water, not the turbid water one would expect in a flood.
Who says they were in the water at the time?

The flood waters are gone, the land is dry, and God "sweeps" them up and stockpiles them in [what is now] Dover.
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  #286  
Unread 9th June 2011, 07:52 AM
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Originally Posted by AV1611VET View Post
Who says they were in the water at the time?

The flood waters are gone, the land is dry, and God "sweeps" them up and stockpiles them in [what is now] Dover.
Because marine creatures like sharks have been fossilized in the chalk. This is proof that the deposit was marine.

The reason why the chalk is above sea level today is because of uplift due tot he fact that Africa is slowly colliding with Europe and as a consequence, the crust has buckled upwards.
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  #287  
Unread 9th June 2011, 08:03 AM
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Originally Posted by Mikecpking View Post
Because marine creatures like sharks have been fossilized in the chalk. This is proof that the deposit was marine.
WOW -- you can't see the forest for the trees, can you?

Please set your college books aside and try and formulate a mental picture of what I'm saying here.

The Flood waters are GONE -- sharks, whales, people, seaweed, coccoliths, etc. and so forth are stretched from one end of Pangaea (China?) to the other (New Jersey?) and everywhere in-between.

Lying in [what is now] China, the Sahara Desert, Nebraska, Mt. Ararat, Mexico, etc. -- not to mention in the oceans, themselves.

Walk 10 feet and there's a T. Rex carcass, walk another 10 feet and there's a shark, walk another 10 feet and there's a man...

Now, God comes along and "sweeps" up the coccoliths from one end of this supercontinent to the other and stockpiles them in Dover.
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  #288  
Unread 9th June 2011, 08:17 AM
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Originally Posted by AV1611VET View Post
WOW -- you can't see the forest for the trees, can you?

Please set your college books aside and try and formulate a mental picture of what I'm saying here.

The Flood waters are GONE -- sharks, whales, people, seaweed, coccoliths, etc. and so forth are stretched from one end of Pangaea (China?) to the other (New Jersey?) and everywhere in-between.

Lying in [what is now] China, the Sahara Desert, Nebraska, Mt. Ararat, Mexico, etc. -- not to mention in the oceans, themselves.

Walk 10 feet and there's a T. Rex carcass, walk another 10 feet and there's a shark, walk another 10 feet and there's a man...

Now, God comes along and "sweeps" up the coccoliths from one end of this supercontinent to the other and stockpiles them in Dover.
AV, you have not shown anything here, bcause you have made a lot of unsupported claims. If all features in geology can be explained by a single, universal flood, then we should find complete randomness in the rocks laid down. EG Sharks in Cambrian rocks together with many land dwelling creatures there and one would hope to find fossilised skeletons of humans...the fact is you don't Neither will you find a shark's tooth on a TX trex site nor a fossilized human..

My take on the flood is a very provable one; during the last ice age, sea levels were 120m (400 feet) lower than they are today, because the sheer volume of water locked into ice. The ice melted, sea levels rose and in the case of the Black Sea which then was a landlocked, fresh water lake, the sea broke through the mountain chain which is the present day Istanbul water channel in Turkey and one can find evidence of settlements deep under water. Because of Isostacy, Isostasy - Wikipedia, the free encyclopedia
the lands which were under the ice has risen up and no more flood today.

Oral tradition would have played a large part of the deluge (climate change) fountains of the deep (water break through) etc and were written down to the Noah's ark story we have in the bible.
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  #289  
Unread 9th June 2011, 08:35 AM
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Originally Posted by Mikecpking View Post
AV, you have not shown anything here, bcause you have made a lot of unsupported claims.
And I said right upfront that these are miracles -- not time-consuming natural occurrences.

And now I see you're going to start bringing up a lot more stuff, and I'm not going to debate this with you.

We started out with I explaining the White Cliffs of Dover, to which you added a shark fossil in there, so I explained that, and now you want to open the dike and flood me with all this other stuff.

Let's stick to the White Cliffs of Dover, eh?
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  #290  
Unread 9th June 2011, 09:01 AM
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Originally Posted by AV1611VET View Post
Take Pluto -- there are some who lived in error for 76 years thinking Pluto was our 9th planet.
You don't have to be such an obvious troll. Pluto has also been explained to you countless times. The only thing that changed about Pluto was how we classified it. It's still the same Pluto.

In case you forgot a mere handful of posts ago, it was you who called the falsified hypothesis "Truth (capital T)", not me. You basically admitted that "Truth" is the opposite of "truth". I guess you can't find a way to backpedal out of that one.

It's the idea of a god, in general, that isn't falsifiable. The god of the Christian bible certainly is falsifiable on account of not only the lack of evidence to support his existence, but the positive evidence against him. There are passages in the bible that indicate ways to test god's existence (though it strongly suggests against it) -- and the tests never come back positive.

In fact, that's the bible's biggest flaw -- that it illustrates the God you believe in in such great detail, making it much easier to falsify.
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Is it too modern to notice that there is nothing [in the ten commandments] about the protection of children from cruelty, nothing about rape, nothing about slavery, and nothing about genocide? Or is it too exactingly “in context” to notice that some of these very offenses are about to be positively recommended? - Christopher Hitchens

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