Can evil be present in 'things'?

heart of peace · #1 4th June 2011, 12:46 AM

Someone I know was looking for various Christian perspectives on a particular topic/situation and I wanted to seek some help here.

The question had to do with occult items (pentagrams, twisted/inverted crosses, etc). The person wanted to know if having them around one's home (for example) is dangerous by making one more vulnerable to potential attack. Also, what about if one moves into a dwelling where the previous tenants were heavily into the occult? If those people moved out and all their items have gone with them as well, is it possible that the home could retain some sort of evil presence? What if the items in question from the previous tenant were left behind that were found later, do those items have any power if the current tenants are believers in Jesus Christ as Lord and Savior?

Could you tell me the Orthodox perspective on this (I know we have house blessings but I was hoping more for Scriptural responses and even what the Church Fathers may have said on this topic)? Thanks!

Gregorios · #2 4th June 2011, 02:21 AM

Having anything associated with the demonic or pagan things invite the demons to attack. I can't think off hand of any Scriptural or Patristic writings on the matter but since these items are the symbols of the demonic. If pagan or dark rituals were done in the home, having a priest come and do a house blessing would be sufficient though I have heard of exorcisms being done in homes in more extreme cases. I would also point out that the inverted cross is sometimes referred to as St. Peter's Cross since this was the manner in which he met his martyrdom so though it may have been co-opted it's original symbolism relates to St. Peter, much like the X-Shaped Cross is for St. Andrew and the Tau Cross is often called St. Anthony's Cross, which is an example of an originally pagan symbol that has been used to demonstrate the truth of Christ.

SoulFoodEater · #3 4th June 2011, 02:31 AM

If you'll take a little time, you can hear an amazing Orthodox story that involves witchcraft, and the power of spells on matter, etc. Here: http://www.pantocrator.net/en/logos/..._Stories_I.mp3
You'll be amazed at this story.

There are some sayings in the desert Fathers which speak of the Devils power over matter, and the sign of the cross over the demons. Its also known that demons hate incense.

575. One of the fathers said, "On one occasion I was lying
"down at night, and I thirsted for water to drink ; now there
" was near me one of the holy men who lived in a holy manner,
" and he saw that I took up the vessel to drink without having
" made over it the [sign of] the Cross. And he said unto me,
" Wait, master, wait'; and he made the sign of the Cross
" over it, and straightway the Calumniator fell from the vessel
" in the form of a flash of fire, and both he and I saw it. And
" we wondered at the great might of our Redeemer, and at
" the marvellous symbol of His merit."

Chapter ii. the history of Dorotbeos of thebes

Now when he heard [these words] he laughed reverently, and constrained himself, and he lifted up his face and looked at me not a little time, and he shook his head, and said unto me, "If it were to happen that " Satan had the power to shew thee in every fountain an asp, " or again to cast into them vipers, or serpents, or tortoises, " or any other kinds of venomous reptiles, wouldst thou be " able to do without drinking water entirely ? " And when he had said these words unto me, he went forth and departed [to
the fountain] and drew water, and brought [it back], and having made the sign of the Cross over it he straightway drank therefrom before he ate anything. And he constrained me to drink and said unto me, " Where the seal (or sign) of " the Cross is, the wickedness of Satan hath no power to do
" harm

Also, read Conference 7 and 8 of St John Cassian to know more about demonic influence and power.

Conference 7

Conference 8

Gregorios · #4 4th June 2011, 02:39 AM

Originally Posted by SoulFoodEater

If you'll take a little time, you can hear an amazing Orthodox story that involves witchcraft, and the power of spells on matter, etc. Here: http://www.pantocrator.net/en/logos/..._Stories_I.mp3
You'll be amazed at this story.

There are some sayings in the desert Fathers which speak of the Devils power over matter, and the sign of the cross over the demons. Its also known that demons hate incense.

575. One of the fathers said, "On one occasion I was lying
"down at night, and I thirsted for water to drink ; now there
" was near me one of the holy men who lived in a holy manner,
" and he saw that I took up the vessel to drink without having
" made over it the [sign of] the Cross. And he said unto me,
" Wait, master, wait'; and he made the sign of the Cross
" over it, and straightway the Calumniator fell from the vessel
" in the form of a flash of fire, and both he and I saw it. And
" we wondered at the great might of our Redeemer, and at
" the marvellous symbol of His merit."

Chapter ii. the history of Dorotbeos of thebes

Now when he heard [these words] he laughed reverently, and constrained himself, and he lifted up his face and looked at me not a little time, and he shook his head, and said unto me, "If it were to happen that " Satan had the power to shew thee in every fountain an asp, " or again to cast into them vipers, or serpents, or tortoises, " or any other kinds of venomous reptiles, wouldst thou be " able to do without drinking water entirely ? " And when he had said these words unto me, he went forth and departed [to
the fountain] and drew water, and brought [it back], and having made the sign of the Cross over it he straightway drank therefrom before he ate anything. And he constrained me to drink and said unto me, " Where the seal (or sign) of " the Cross is, the wickedness of Satan hath no power to do
" harm

Also, read Conference 7 and 8 of St John Cassian to know more about demonic influence and power.

Conference 7

Conference 8

Спасибо, брат, thank you.

SoulFoodEater · #5 4th June 2011, 02:51 PM

Originally Posted by Gregorios

Спасибо, брат, thank you.

You're welcome.

Like you said, "having a priest come and do a house blessing would be sufficient though I have heard of exorcisms being done in homes in more extreme cases.".Like you said here. A house blessing or exorcism couldn't hurt. I would only do it for the sake of other people who come into my home, and not myself, since I do not fear the evil spirits, they cannot harm believers who seal themselves with the sign of the cross, as the desert Fathers said. Besides, its normal to fight demons, "For we do not wrestle against flesh and blood, but against the rulers, against the authorities, against the cosmic powers over this present darkness, against the spiritual forces of evil in the heavenly places." (Ephesians 6:12).

I would be much more worried about the demons in my own heart; rather than to fret about demons in the outside world, who cannot effect me, unless I have a weak spiritual life. Because the demons operate secretly on a persons heart and mind. The Holy Fathers actually say that the demons touch certain parts of the brain, and hover around one's heart in order to secretly manipulate them to sin. Take the example of Evagrius Ponticus, St Diadachos, and St Hesychius the priest. Evagrius said,

"A man who possesses spiritual knowledge has said that this illusion results from the passion of self-esteem and from the demon's touch on a certain area of the brain."
150 Texts on prayer

St Diadachos said,

"It is impossible, however, for someone consciously to taste the divine goodness or consciously to realize when he is experiencing the bitterness of the demons, unless he first knows with assurance that grace dwells in the depths of his intellect, while the wicked spirits cluster round only the outside of the heart. This is just what the demons do not want us to know, for fear that our intellect, once definitely aware of it, will arm itself against them with the remembrance of God."
On Spiritual Knowledge

St Hesychius said,

23. "Just as someone in the midst of a crowd, holding a mirror and looking at it, sees not only his own face but also the faces of those looking in the mirror with him, so someone who looks into his own heart sees in it not only his own state, but also the black faces of the demons."
On Watchfulness & Holiness

This of course is not to say that the demons force a person to sin, but they tempt and poison a person, so that their will becomes weakened. So that they become vice minded instead of virtue minded. 17Even so every good tree bringeth forth good fruit; but a corrupt tree bringeth forth evil fruit. 18A good tree cannot bring forth evil fruit, neither can a corrupt tree bring forth good fruit." (Matthew 7).

In that Orthodox story I posted above, it is communicated that a rusty nail, which was an item used by a sorcerer, disintegrated into ashes when the priest said the prayers of exorcism over it.... Amazing.

Here is the prayer for the priest to expel demons from homes:

Prayer by a priest for a home troubled by evil spirits

O Lord God of our salvation, Son of the Living God, Who is borne by the Cherubim, being above all dominions, principalities, authorities and powers: You are great and fearsome to all around You. You are the One Who set the heavens like a vault and made the earth in Your might; Who directs the universe in Your wisdom. When earthquakes occur under heaven from the foundations, its pillars are unshaken. You speak and the sun does not shine. You sealed the stars. You forbad the seas and dried them up. Authorities and dominions hide from Your wrath, and the rock trembles before You.
You obliterated the gates of brass and demolished the bars of iron. You bound the Mighty One and smashed his vessels. By Your Cross You cast down tyrants and drew in the Serpent with the hook of Your humanity. Having cast him down, You bound him with hooks in the gloom of Tartarus.
As the same Lord, the Hope of those who place their confirmation on You, and the Wall of might for those whose expectation is in You, anathematize, drive away and transform all diabolical actions and all satanic indictments, all slanders of the Adversary, and of the powers lying under this roof. Free those bearing the Sign which is awesome against demons: the Cross of Your victory, and calling upon Your gracious Name, from possession by him and from those wandering about under this roof.
Yea, Lord, You drove away legions of demons, and the demons and unclean spirits by which the deaf and dumb were held. These You commanded to depart and not to return again. You have consumed all the armies of our invisible enemies, and have made wise the faithful who have known You. For You said, "Behold, I give you power to trample underfoot snakes and scorpions, and all the power of enemies" (Luke 10:19).
Preserve, O Master, all who live in the house from all harm and every temptation from below, delivering them from fear of the feeble one and the arrows that fly by day, from things proceeding from the darkness and attacks by demons at midday. Let Your servants and Your children, delighting in Your help, and preserved by armies of angels, faithfully sing with one accord: "The Lord is my Helper and I will not be afraid; what can man do to me?" and again, "I will fear no evil, for You are with me."
As You are my Confirmation, O God, Mighty Master, Prince of Peace, and Father of the age to come, for Your kingdom is an eternal Kingdom, to you alone is the Kingdom, and the Power, and the Glory, with the Father and the Holy Spirit, now and ever and unto ages of ages. Amen.

Protoevangel · #6 4th June 2011, 03:13 PM

Symbols only have influence over those who ascribe power to that symbol.

The pentagram has been a Christian symbol in the past, representing the five wounds of Christ.

The inverted cross is the cross of Saint Peter (when I see people wearing the inverted cross, I always commend them on how the cross of such an exalted Christian Saint looks on them).

A living faith, along with the sign of the cross is stronger than any dead symbol that someone assigns an evil meaning to.

ArmyMatt · #7 4th June 2011, 07:47 PM

I know that there is a mountain near Platina where pagans and wiccans used to go to practice their magic, and Fr Seraphim Rose went there and would pray that the demons would be exorcised from that area.

so yeah, I would say that demons can attack through objects, because the hearts of many people would allow them to.

Coralie · #8 4th June 2011, 08:07 PM

Originally Posted by ArmyMatt

so yeah, I would say that demons can attack through objects, because the hearts of many people would allow them to.

agree

When I read your OP, I thought about it for a while, and decided it's really about the level of closeness you have to God when it comes to this sort of thing.

If you are truly the strongest, Athonite-style warrior Christian who has drawn very very close to God through prayer, and you have true humility and true meekness, I think objects like this have very little "power". Since you know and understand the sovereignty of the Lord to such an extent, that when you look at that object, you don't worry at all that it has "power" over you. (If that makes sense.) So you aren't open to any kind of attack or doubt, you give everything over to the Lord so you're safe. In a way, Christ has sanctified that object for you.

But the fact is, the vast vast majority of us are not like that (e.g. me). So we need the help of the Church -- blessing, possibly exorcism, etc. -- so that we aren't open to natural feelings of fear or doubt, which can lead easily to deception.

But I have no references from the ECFs from this, these are just my thoughts.

I did, when I first became a Christian (not yet Orthodox), burn an enormous number of books, letters, and objects that made me recall my past life. This included occult and astrology books, tarot cards, that kind of thing, as well as more innocuous stuff that just had bad connotations to me. I just felt I would rather rid myself of them completely than have them there to bother me. And it was a good thing for me to do, personally. I didn't do it out of fear, just out of obedience to God, since I didn't want to pass those objects on to anyone who might use them to explore dangerous things.

ExOrienteLux · #9 4th June 2011, 08:42 PM

From my experiences, I would say that yes, the bent ones can attack us through things and places. I lived in an apartment where the previous tenants were pagans. They left a lot of their things around. Even when we got rid of them, there was still a presence in the apartment. It didn't go away until our priest blessed the house.

I've also felt evil presences in my father-in-law's house. The woman who lived there before them dated one of the members of the Manson family, and I think there were sacrifices and other unspeakable things that happened in the basement. My wife and I both have been oppressed when we've spent the night there. The basement door will shake at night, his dogs will bark at the basement door, one of the upstairs rooms is always cold (even in the summer), and I've woken up in the middle of the night with a weight on my chest that only vanished when I crossed myself and said "Let God Arise."

SoulFoodEater · #10 5th June 2011, 12:01 AM

Originally Posted by ExOrienteLux

From my experiences, I would say that yes, the bent ones can attack us through things and places. I lived in an apartment where the previous tenants were pagans. They left a lot of their things around. Even when we got rid of them, there was still a presence in the apartment. It didn't go away until our priest blessed the house.

I've also felt evil presences in my father-in-law's house. The woman who lived there before them dated one of the members of the Manson family, and I think there were sacrifices and other unspeakable things that happened in the basement. My wife and I both have been oppressed when we've spent the night there. The basement door will shake at night, his dogs will bark at the basement door, one of the upstairs rooms is always cold (even in the summer), and I've woken up in the middle of the night with a weight on my chest that only vanished when I crossed myself and said "Let God Arise."

Wow... Filthy devils.