Messianic Judaism vs. Conservative Christianity

Jase · #1 20th May 2011, 11:15 AM

So based on my time on this forum, I've noticed that quite a few Messianics here share very similar views to that of Fundamentalist/Conservative Christianity. Things like Young Earth Creationism, eternal torment hell doctrine, Lucifer/Devil/Demons etc.

Are the bulk of Messianics here Gentiles who more closely align with Christianity on a theological basis?

I basically consider myself a Reform Jew who believes in Yeshu as the messiah. But I'm a theistic evolutionist and lean more towards the Jewish concept of the Afterlife over the Christian one.

Am I alone in that regard here? No offense intended, but I feel like I'm on the Conservative Christianity forum, not a Judaism forum. So I'm just trying to get a feel of people's views here.

yedida · #2 20th May 2011, 11:39 AM

You're not on a Judaism forum, it's Messianic Judsiam.
As far as the age of the earth, I don't care. Be it 100 years old or 100 trillion years old, has nothing really to do with me. I'm here now.
As far as torment and hell, if there is such a thing, I'm headed in opposite direction. So, again, I'm not terribly concerned with those doctrines. It's certainly not something I would use to convince a person they need to turn to Hashem.
Hasatan? Jury is still out.
Demons? see above, though leaning further toward the NOT.
I am not overly inclined to dwell on heaven, but am quite interested in the world to come, haba olam.
There is a faith-o-meter thingy on the web, and everytime I take the quiz, I come up anywhere from 95%-100% Orthodox Jew (I always get a chuckle out of my score).

I don't know how "ordinary" a MG I am, but this is me, good or bad.

anisavta · #3 20th May 2011, 01:12 PM

I basically consider myself a Reform Jew who believes in Yeshu as the messiah.

If you believed that He is Messiah - I don't think you would consider Him as Yeshu - Yemach Shmo u'Zikro" meaning "may his name be blotted out"

NvxiaLee · #4 20th May 2011, 01:21 PM

Jase, because some of the views posted in Messianic Judaism forum so closely mirror that of conservative Evangelicals, I've wondered if they are conservative Evangelicals, Hagee-esque groupies, not here because they're Jews, but here to show their loyalty to Jews. For example, one post I've replied to features the most hateful ripping on gentiles for persecuting Jews. I tend to see that kind of extreme hate more from the Hagee-esque than from Jews.

Like you, I myself tend to hold more toward Jewish concepts of the afterlife, etc.

Originally Posted by Jase

So based on my time on this forum, I've noticed that quite a few Messianics here share very similar views to that of Fundamentalist/Conservative Christianity. Things like Young Earth Creationism, eternal torment hell doctrine, Lucifer/Devil/Demons etc.

Are the bulk of Messianics here Gentiles who more closely align with Christianity on a theological basis?

I basically consider myself a Reform Jew who believes in Yeshu as the messiah. But I'm a theistic evolutionist and lean more towards the Jewish concept of the Afterlife over the Christian one.

Am I alone in that regard here? No offense intended, but I feel like I'm on the Conservative Christianity forum, not a Judaism forum. So I'm just trying to get a feel of people's views here.

ContraMundum · #5 20th May 2011, 01:30 PM

Originally Posted by Jase

So based on my time on this forum, I've noticed that quite a few Messianics here share very similar views to that of Fundamentalist/Conservative Christianity. Things like Young Earth Creationism, eternal torment hell doctrine, Lucifer/Devil/Demons etc.

Are the bulk of Messianics here Gentiles who more closely align with Christianity on a theological basis?

I basically consider myself a Reform Jew who believes in Yeshu as the messiah. But I'm a theistic evolutionist and lean more towards the Jewish concept of the Afterlife over the Christian one.

Am I alone in that regard here? No offense intended, but I feel like I'm on the Conservative Christianity forum, not a Judaism forum. So I'm just trying to get a feel of people's views here.

I'd like to respectfully comment on this.

I consider myself a Conservative Jewish Christian. I believe all the stuff you mention in your opening paragraph.

I think people, whether Jewish or Gentile, can bring some baggage with them when they become Christians. I would respectfully suggest that to my eyes, you have some Reform Judaism left in you. I mean this not as a indictment, but merely as an observation. This would work for my case as well. I grew up Orthodox. When I severed religious ties with Judaism, I opted for an orthodox form of Christianity (because I see a continuity on many points). This may be a reflection of values I grew up with in regards the respect for tradition and religious continuity and authority, some have suggested. Not just that, I believe that on many points of belief, one must make a clean break too- hence, I reject reincarnation and and chasidus for the most part too.

I think we come to Christ with baggage, and in due course He changes us and our old beliefs die over time as He shows us the truth. I think both you and I will have changed a lot in ten years. You may even become more conservative! God only knows what will become of our beliefs in our journey.

ContraMundum · #6 20th May 2011, 01:37 PM

Originally Posted by NvxiaLee

Jase, because some of the views posted in Messianic Judaism forum so closely mirror that of conservative Evangelicals, I've wondered if they are conservative Evangelicals, Hagee-esque groupies,

I don't think that is a fair equivocation. It begs the question- are the beliefs of conservative Evangelicals and others true or not? I say they are true. Not because of Hagee (never read or heard him in my life) or any other teacher, but because of the teachings of scripture.

The point is that Conservative Christianity may in fact be right. The beliefs of that tradition of Christianity should be tested on their merits, not slandered as somehow "not Jewish enough" for you.

Like you, I myself tend to hold more toward Jewish concepts of the afterlife, etc.

The problem with Rabbinic Judaism's concept of the afterlife is that if one is actually a Christian, we have more revelation from God now. The NT is clear about the afterlife on many points. If you reject those points, you are taking a more critical/liberal position on scripture. While you are entitled to do so, you should not be critical of those who take such points more seriously and literally by deeming them to be "not Jewish enough" for you. Remember that in Judaism there are many traditions of interpretation too. The same goes for the Church.

rsduncan · #7 20th May 2011, 02:07 PM

Originally Posted by Jase

So based on my time on this forum, I've noticed that quite a few Messianics here share very similar views to that of Fundamentalist/Conservative Christianity. Things like Young Earth Creationism, eternal torment hell doctrine, Lucifer/Devil/Demons etc.

Are the bulk of Messianics here Gentiles who more closely align with Christianity on a theological basis?

I basically consider myself a Reform Jew who believes in Yeshu as the messiah. But I'm a theistic evolutionist and lean more towards the Jewish concept of the Afterlife over the Christian one.

Am I alone in that regard here? No offense intended, but I feel like I'm on the Conservative Christianity forum, not a Judaism forum. So I'm just trying to get a feel of people's views here.

Have you ever listened to any Haredi Rabbis???

visionary · #8 20th May 2011, 02:13 PM

young creation... biblically that is just adding up the literal interpretation of the biblical time frame.. preserved by Moses in Torah...

hell and torment... I do not see that in scripture as presented in the general Christian body...

cevil/demons/and evil spirits... Yeshua exposed them.. and what they are up to... that is probably why there is more written in NT than OT on the subject.

GuardianShua · #9 20th May 2011, 02:20 PM

Regards to: Jewish concepts of the afterlife.
The word sheol means grave.
It does not mean hell. They are entirely two different words. According to scripture this world is not a part of Gods kingdom.
However, when all things are made new, this world will be included as Gods kingdom.
Scriptures use many words in a parabolic fashion, words such as Satan, Devil, Serpent, and even Apollonian.
It is both body and spirit that makes a living soul. A person without a body is a spirit, and a body without a spirit is dead.
At the time of the final judgement and resurrection people will come into being as a soul; both body and spirit.
For those who have failed the test, their life will be taken from them; and they will be no more. Both body and spirit are done away with, and this fire (judgement) burns forever.
Gehenna symbolizes eternal destruction.

rsduncan · #10 20th May 2011, 02:20 PM

Originally Posted by visionary

young creation... biblically that is just adding up the literal interpretation of the biblical time frame.. preserved by Moses in Torah...

hell and torment... I do not see that in scripture as presented in the general Christian body...

cevil/demons/and evil spirits... Yeshua exposed them.. and what they are up to... that is probably why there is more written in NT than OT on the subject.

Questions such as these I set aside for the day in which we have the opportunity to get the definitive answers from the Creator Himself. Matters of how we relate to G-d and to our fellow man are sufficient for today...