If time is relative what does it mean to say the Big Bang occurred 13.7 billion years ago? Relative to who?
__________________ -Happiness is not the reward for perfection.---I strongly support the faith that Jesus describes in the Gospels and strive to live the Christian life.----I am a skeptic of both faith and science. Neither is adequate to describe reality or truth.----"I like your Christ, I do not like your Christians. Your Christians are so unlike your Christ." --Gandhi
If time is relative what does it mean to say the Big Bang occurred 13.7 billion years ago? Relative to who?
Excellent questions and point.
Time is not a physical material object, but rather the a priori form of our intuition.
"Time is not something which subsists of itself, or which inheres in things as an objective determination..." -- Immanuel Kant, natural philosopher, 1781
"If we...consequently take objects as they are in themselves, then time is nothing." -- Immanuel Kant, natural philosopher, 1781
The reason why Big Bangers say there was a magic bang 13.7 billion years ago is because Big Bangers have declared war on observation and the scientific method and fooled the ignorant public into believing they have magic time machines, crystal balls, and scrying bowls.
__________________ "Would that I had unknown utterances, sayings that are unfamiliar, even new speech that has not occurred (before), free from repetitions, not the utterance of what has [long?] passed, which the ancestors spake." -- Khekheperre-Sonbu, priest, 19th century B.C.
"Man will believe anything, as long as it's not in the Bible." -- Napoleon Bonaparte, emperor, 19th century
"We all believe as an article of faith that life evolved from dead matter on this planet." -- Harold C. Urey, chemist, 1962
Theory of relativity and quantum mechanics evidenced that space-time and matter-energy - two sides of one coin.
Time - is internal phenomenon with respect of the Universe. It is -quality of the universe.
So, talk about "emergence" of the Universe is unlawful. Similarly, talk about "emergence" of time is unlawful. Time and the Universe did not appear. They were ALWAYS (12 or 14 billion years).
A thing can appear only if a thing was not.
And "when" and "was" determined only over time. That is, within the universe.
(When was the time when there was no time?)
Similarly, the absurd question, "what came before big-bang?", or (quote) "Relative to who?".
__________________ Aequat causa effectum
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Last edited by SharpSolaris; 21st April 2011 at 05:37 AM.
Time and space are relative to here and now. Here and now is the zero point. The past is expanding, but it is all we are capable of perceiving in the normal course of things. Mystics can experience the here and now and realize in some fashion that the universe is all one thing, and all that we perceive is the illusion of separateness.
__________________ "A belief which leaves no place for doubt is not a belief; it is a superstition." - Jose Bergamin
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"Je ne suis pas marxiste." -- Karl Marx
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Time and space are relative to here and now. Here and now is the zero point. The past is expanding, but it is all we are capable of perceiving in the normal course of things. Mystics can experience the here and now and realize in some fashion that the universe is all one thing, and all that we perceive is the illusion of separateness.
I don't think that's the kind of "relativity" the OP was asking about
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I don't think that's the kind of "relativity" the OP was asking about.
But one observer may see two events as separated by space but simultaneous in time, another, from a different viewpoint will see those two events as occurring at different times at the same spatial location. And that is the spacetime relativity that is under discussion.
__________________ "A belief which leaves no place for doubt is not a belief; it is a superstition." - Jose Bergamin
"You can't trust an honest man." --- Anonymous
"He does not believe who does not live according to his belief." -- Thomas Fuller
"The fact that the author thinks slowly is not serious, but the fact that he publishes faster than he thinks is inexcusable." -- Wolfgang Pauli
"He hath shewed thee, O man, what is good; and what doth the LORD require of thee, but to do justly, and to love mercy, and to walk humbly with thy God?" -- Micah 6:8
"It is because we believe absurdities that we are able to commit atrocities." -- Voltaire
"This isn't right. This isn't even wrong." -- Wolfgang Pauli
"Je ne suis pas marxiste." -- Karl Marx
"Faith is believing what you know ain't so."-- Mark Twain
"The difference between genius and stupidity is that genius has its limits." -- Albert Einstein
to earth years, the distance it takes for the Earth to make a complete 1 orbit around the sun. Is that not obvious?
According to mainstream scientists and chronologists, based on uranium-lead series radiometric dating of moon rocks the Earth is only 4.6 billion years old therefore years did not exist before that because the Earth wasn't orbiting the Sun.
Furthermore the earth has not always been on it's present orbit so 13.7 billion years ago is a meaningless statement.
__________________ "Would that I had unknown utterances, sayings that are unfamiliar, even new speech that has not occurred (before), free from repetitions, not the utterance of what has [long?] passed, which the ancestors spake." -- Khekheperre-Sonbu, priest, 19th century B.C.
"Man will believe anything, as long as it's not in the Bible." -- Napoleon Bonaparte, emperor, 19th century
"We all believe as an article of faith that life evolved from dead matter on this planet." -- Harold C. Urey, chemist, 1962
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