Pastor died for 25 minutes and saw hell.

DennisTate · #81 17th April 2012, 06:50 AM

Originally Posted by Alive_Again

My wife's grandfather had died in the hospital and his family prayed him back. When he came back, he was angry to have to come back. He was suffering and he had been to the gates and had seen his wife and some of his family members. He said that he felt the most incredible love and peace and wasn't happy to come back to his old suffering body.

I think he only lived a few more days, but his family took great comfort in his eventual passing having heard his story.

Wow, that is wonderful!

I am sure that at this moment he is thankful though that he did come back for a few days so that you would have this amazing testimony to encourage others with!

WalksWithChrist · #82 18th April 2012, 09:12 AM

Originally Posted by DennisTate

Yes, and my nine year old daughter loved it when I read her two pages of what was available online about his experience.

She also watched several YouTube videos rather intently. What Howard Storm reported seemed to answer some of the questions she was asking me.

That's really great.

Originally Posted by Alive_Again

My wife's grandfather had died in the hospital and his family prayed him back. When he came back, he was angry to have to come back. He was suffering and he had been to the gates and had seen his wife and some of his family members. He said that he felt the most incredible love and peace and wasn't happy to come back to his old suffering body.

I think he only lived a few more days, but his family took great comfort in his eventual passing having heard his story.

Originally Posted by DennisTate

Wow, that is wonderful!

I am sure that at this moment he is thankful though that he did come back for a few days so that you would have this amazing testimony to encourage others with!

I had the same thought.

CalledOutOne · #83 18th April 2012, 09:21 AM

Originally Posted by salamacum

He said "I have done all I could for them - I shed my blood for them"

Everything but this. Jesus died for the elect. Only the elect. If He died for everyone, God's wrath would be satisfied for everyone and everyone would Go to heaven.

God elects [i.e. chooses, predestines, foreordains]

His angels
1Tim 5:21

His peculiar people, Israel
Exo 6:7; Deu 7:6-8; Deu 10:14-15; Psa 33:12; Isa 43:20-21

Individuals to salvation
Psa 65:4; Mat 24:24; John 6:37; John 15:16; Act 13:48; Rom 8:28-30; Rom 9:10-24; Rom 11:5-7; Eph 1:3-6; Eph 1:11-12; 1The 1:4; 1The 5:9; 2The 2:13-14

Individuals to condemnation
Exo 4:21; Rom 9:13; Rom 9:17-18; Rom 9:21-22; 1Pet 2:8

His motivation in election

His own good pleasure
Eph 1:5; 2Tim 1:9

The display of his glory
Isa 43:6-7; Rom 9:22-24; 1Cor 1:27-31; Eph 2:4-7; Pro 16:4

His special love
Deu 7:6-8; 2The 2:13

His foreknowledge
Rom 8:29; 1Pet 1:2

Which means his special love
Jer 1:5; Amos 3:2; Mat 7:22-23; 1Cor 8:3; 2Tim 2:19; 1Pet 1:20
But not:

Any good [nobility, wisdom, power, choice, seeking] he foresees in anyone Deu 7:7; Rom 9:11-13; Rom 9:16; Rom 10:20; 1Cor 1:27-29; 1Cor 4:7; 2Tim 1:9

God purposed to redeem a certain people and not others 1Chr 17:20-21; Mat 22:14; 1Pet 2:8-9 [see “God elects individuals to salvation”/God elects individuals to condemnation”]
It is for these in particular that Christ gave his life
Isa 53:10-11; Mat 1:21; John 6:35-40; John 10:3-4, 11, 14-15; Act 20:28; Eph 5:25 [we are commanded to love our wives in the same way that Christ loved the church and gave himself for it; therefore, if Christ loved and gave himself for all people in the same way, we are commanded to love all women in the same way that we love our wives]; Heb 2:17; Heb 9:15
It is for these in particular that Christ intercedes
John 17:1-2; John 17:6-12; John 17:20-21, 24-26; Rom 8:34
The people for whom Christ intercedes are the same as the people for whom he offered himself up as a sacrifice
Heb 7:24-27; Heb 9:12 [note context, in which entering into the holy place is explicitly for the purpose of intercession], 24-28 [For a fuller understanding of the indissoluble connection between sacrifice and intercession, read Hebrews chapters 7-10]
The atonement of Christ is effective
To justify
Isa 53:11 [the single effective cause of justification in view here is the bearing of iniquities; all whose iniquities Christ bore must be justified]; Rom 8:34 [the argument here is that the fact of Christ's death, resurrection, and intercession is in itself an incontrovertibly effective reason for non-condemnation; if this verse is true, then no one for whom Christ died and was raised to intercede may be condemned]
To redeem and cleanse from sins
Eph 5:25-27; Tit 2:14
To propitiate the Father
1John 2:2 [“propitiation” means “the turning away or appeasement of wrath”; therefore, by definition, the Father has no more wrath against those whose sins have been propitiated]; 1John 4:10
To raise to new life
2Cor 5:14-15 [the argument is a simple “if/then” proposition: “if” Christ died for someone, “then,” with no other conditions, that person died with him and was raised again]; 1Pet 3:18
[See also, “Jesus' death purchased for his people a new heart; – faith; – repentance”. Jesus died in order to establish the New Covenant (Mat. 26:26-29, etc.); the New Covenant promised faith, repentance and knowledge of God (Jer. 31:33-34, Ez. 36:26-27, etc.); therefore, Jesus died in order to provide faith, repentance, and knowledge of God, as the fulfillment of a unilateral promise. This means that his death had a definite purpose which was intended for some and not others. His death effectively purchased faith; not all have faith; and so his death had an effective intent that was limited to certain persons.] Those whom God purposed to redeem include all who believe John 3:16
From every nation
Rev 5:9
From every class
Gal 3:28; 1Tim 2:1-6 [the first “all men” is explicitly tied to all classes of men, which gives warrant for understanding the second “all men” in the same way]
Therefore, Christ's saving work is commonly spoken of in terms of “all,” “world,” etc.
John 1:29; Tit 2:11-14 [in the context of “all men” is the delimiting concept of a peculiar people, zealous of good works]; Heb 2:9-10 [notice that the many sons whom Christ brings to glory gives a contextual delimiter to the term “every”]; 2Pet 3:9 [note that this desire is explicitly limited to “us” (Peter was writing to fellow-believers) in the context]; 1John 2:2 [propitiation means “appeasement of wrath”; either Jesus appeases God's wrath against all, and therefore hell (which is the place where God's wrath resides) is non-existent; or the “whole world” means something different than “every individual who ever lived”. See John 11:51-52, and “The word 'world' is often used in the sense of 'many,' or 'all of a set'”]
The word “all” is often used to indicate all of a set, or even many representatives of a set
Mat 10:22; 1Cor 6:12; 1Cor 15:22; Mat 2:3; John 4:29; Act 10:39; Act 17:21; Act 21:28; Act 26:4
Or, to indicate all “classes” or “nations,” not all individuals
Mat 5:11; Act 2:17; Act 10:12
The word “world” is often used in the sense of “many,” or “all of a set”
Luk 2:1-2; John 6:33; John 12:19; Act 19:27; Rom 1:8
Additional reasons that the atonement of Christ is not for all the sins of all people
God punishes people in hell, which would be unjust if their sins were atoned for
Mark 9:43-44
If one were to say, “their sins are atoned for, but that atonement is not applied because of unbelief,” he fails to realize that unbelief is likewise a sin
Heb 3:12 [“The Father imposed His wrath due unto, and the Son underwent punishment for either: 1) All the sins of all men; 2) All the sins of some men; or 3) Some of the sins of all men. In which case it may be said: 1) If the last be true all men have some sins to answer for, and so none are saved; 2) That if the second be true, then Christ, in their stead suffered for all the sins of the elect in the whole world, and this is the truth; 3) But if the first is the case, why are not all men free from the punishment due unto their sins? You answer, Because of unbelief. I ask, Is this unbelief a sin, or is it not? If it be, then Christ suffered the punishment due unto it, or He did not. If He did, why must that hinder them more than their other sins for which He died? If He did not, He did not die for all their sins!” – John Owen, The Death of Death in the Death of Christ]
God bears eternal wrath against people, which by definition means that his wrath against them has not been propitiated [appeased]
1The 2:16; 2The 1:6-9
Intentions of Christ's death other than atonement
To make a public display of demons
Col 2:13-15
To rule over everyone
Rom 14:9
To redeem creation
Isa 35:1-4; Rom 8:20-23
To lay the foundation for a genuine gospel call
John 6:39-40; John 7:37-38
To provide temporal mercies for the non-elect
Mat 5:45; 1Tim 4:10

DennisTate · #84 19th April 2012, 08:23 AM

Originally Posted by WalksWithChrist

That's really great.

I had the same thought.

My Uncle Lester passed on two days ago. It is amazing how often people have a story of a loved one giving them a message near the point of their death that really gets them thinking in another direction.

For example in her last months my mom was asking who was singing hymns?

Nobody was singing hymns that Maria and I and the kids could hear but obviously she was hearing them and this detail is truly comforting to us!

My wife had led my mum to say the sinners prayer as she was caring for her for a couple of years. Some people who have not taken that step would often complain of hearing a very different sort of activity going as their death approached!

WalksWithChrist · #85 23rd April 2012, 09:19 AM

Originally Posted by DennisTate

My Uncle Lester passed on two days ago. It is amazing how often people have a story of a loved one giving them a message near the point of their death that really gets them thinking in another direction.

For example in her last months my mom was asking who was singing hymns?

Nobody was singing hymns that Maria and I and the kids could hear but obviously she was hearing them and this detail is truly comforting to us!

My wife had led my mum to say the sinners prayer as she was caring for her for a couple of years. Some people who have not taken that step would often complain of hearing a very different sort of activity going as their death approached!

Such things are common and are generally called "deathbed visions". You can Google that term and find quite a bit on the subject.

DennisTate · #86 27th December 2012, 08:10 PM

Originally Posted by WalksWithChrist

Such things are common and are generally called "deathbed visions". You can Google that term and find quite a bit on the subject.

True!

I had read about this years ago but I just saw this again that Pastor Kenneth Hagin had a near death experience when he was young.

Rev. Kenneth Hagin

My heart stopped for a second time. I leaped out of my body and began to descend: down, down, down. Oh, I know it was just a few seconds, but it seemed like an eternity.

There farther down I went, the hotter and darker it became, until I came again to the bottom of the pit and saw the entrance to hell, or the gates as I call it. I was conscious that that creature met me.

...

And in the darkness, I cried out, "God! I belong to the church! I've been baptized in water"

I waited for an answer, but there was no answer; only the echo of my own voice through the darkness. And the second time I cried a little louder, "God! I belong to the church! I've been baptized in water!"

I waited for an answer, but there was no answer; only the echo of my own voice as it echoed through the darkness

.....

Thank God that voice spoke. I don't know who it was ï¿½ I didn't see anybody ï¿½ I just heard the voice. I don't know what he said, but whatever he said, that place shook; it just trembled. And that creature took his hand off my arm.

It was just like there was suction to my back parts. It pulled me back, away from the entrance to hell, until I stood in the shadows. Then it pulled me up head first.

(Kenneth Hagin then enters his body again and recovers from his illness.)

No wonder Pastor Hagin had such amazing zeal!

WalksWithChrist · #87 27th December 2012, 09:13 PM

Originally Posted by DennisTate

True!

I had read about this years ago but I just saw this again that Pastor Kenneth Hagin had a near death experience when he was young.

Rev. Kenneth Hagin

...

.....

No wonder Pastor Hagin had such amazing zeal!

Good to hear from you after all these months!

Thanks for posting that. I just happened to see this video today. It has Howard Storm and a couple others.

Three Atheist s Died and Went to Hell But Christ Gave Second Chances! Near Death Experience - YouTube

These types of testimony remind me that I serve God not to avoid hell, but because I want to. Hell is your destination if you only serve yourself.