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  #11  
Unread 29th March 2011, 02:28 PM
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Originally Posted by tsr View Post
Liberal theology is a interesting subject and in many cases can be dangerous in the context of christian beliefs. Here is the definintion of liberal theology.
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Liberal biblically informed religious movements and ideas within Christianity from the late 18th century and onward. The word "liberal" in liberal Christianity does not refer to a progressive political agenda or set of beliefs, but rather to the manner of thought and belief associated with the philosophical and religious paradigms developed during the Age of Enlightenment.

Liberal Christianity, broadly speaking, is a method of biblical hermeneutics, an undogmatic method of understanding God through the use of scripture by applying the same modern hermeneutics used to understand any ancient writings. Liberal Christianity does not claim to be a belief structure, and as such is not dependent upon any Church dogma or creedal statements. Unlike conservative varieties of Christianity, it has no unified set of propositional beliefs. The word liberal in liberal Christianity denotes a characteristic willingness to interpret scripture without any preconceived notion of inerrancy of scripture or the correctness of Church dogma.[1] A liberal Christian, however, may hold certain beliefs in common with traditional, orthodox, or even conservative Christianity.
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What we have here is a semantical difference in the use of "liberal theology"
which did begin in the 18th. century with the separation of dogma of the Catholic Church. The individual began to assert his right to interpret the scriptures in place of the Church only. This independence made the person a liberal Christian. However, as you point out the liberal Christian still used the scriptures as his entomological foundation.

The 18th. century definition has outlived its usefulness in modern day spiritual protestantism. In the thread on the Wesleyan sub forum called "What is Liberal Theology?" the source cited there defines liberal theology for today. In that definition, the theologian defines liberal Christianity as abandoning not only the Church as the main authority in doctrine but it abandon's the scriptures in favor of human reasoning. "
In “liberal Christian” teaching, which is not Christian at all, man’s reason is stressed and is treated as the final authority. Liberal theologians seek to reconcile Christianity with secular science and “modern thinking.” In doing so, they treat science as all-knowing and the Bible as fable-laden and false. Genesis’ early chapters are reduced to poetry or fantasy, having a message, but not to be taken literally (in spite of Jesus’ having spoken of those early chapters in literal terms). Mankind is not seen as totally depraved, and thus liberal theologians have an optimistic view of the future of mankind. The social gospel is also emphasized,
1) The Bible is not “God-breathed” and has errors. Because of this belief, man (the liberal theologians) must determine which teachings are correct and which are not........
2) The virgin birth of Christ is a mythological false teaching. This directly contradicts Isaiah 7:14 and Luke 2.
3) Jesus did not rise again from the grave in bodily form. This contradicts the Resurrection accounts in all four gospels and the entire New Testament.
4) Jesus was a good moral teacher, but His followers and their followers have taken liberties with the history of His life as recorded in Scripture (there were no “supernatural” miracles), with the gospels having been written many years later and merely ascribed to the early disciples in order to give greater weight to their teachings
5) Hell is not real. Man is not lost in sin and is not doomed to some future judgment without a relationship with Christ through faith. Man can help himself; no sacrificial death by Christ is necessary since a loving God would not send people to such a place as hell and since man is not born in sin.
6) Most of the human authors of the Bible are not as traditionally believed.
7) The most important thing for man to do is to “love” his neighbor. What is the loving thing to do in any situation is not what the Bible says is good but what the liberal theologians decide is good.

There are different ways to use the word liberal. For example, the Lord loves a liberal giver but that is not what we are talking about on this thread. There is an 18th. century definition of liberal and many other definitions of liberal but to confuse a liberal Christian for a secret Bible believing Christian is very different.
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  #12  
Unread 29th March 2011, 02:35 PM
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Originally Posted by Sidheil View Post
Not to interrupt anything, but that's hardly a modern idea. Both Augustine of Hippo and Origen believed the creation account in Genesis is meant to be taken allegorically as opposed to literally. Again, not saying I support liberal theology, just pointing something out.
The point is, even if you think allegorically or not, if your conclusions are based on scripture, that keeps you away from being a liberal. What a liberal does today is to determine his Christianity through human reasoning rather than scriptures or at least scriptures are not primary.
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  #13  
Unread 29th March 2011, 02:40 PM
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Originally Posted by GadFly View Post
The point is, even if you think allegorically or not, if your conclusions are based on scripture, that keeps you away from being a liberal. What a liberal does today is to determine his Christianity through human reasoning rather than scriptures or at least scriptures are not primary.
Oh, I think I see. If you start from reasoned out conclusions and interpret Scripture in light of them, that's liberal. If you start with Scripture and reason out conclusions from that, then you are not. Correct?
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  #14  
Unread 29th March 2011, 02:50 PM
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Originally Posted by Sidheil View Post
Not to interrupt anything, but that's hardly a modern idea. Both Augustine of Hippo and Origen believed the creation account in Genesis is meant to be taken allegorically as opposed to literally. Again, not saying I support liberal theology, just pointing something out.
This is a little info on Augustine of Hippo
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Augustine was born in a Roman province and educated at Carthage. As a young man he became interested in philosophy, with little interest in Christianity until a religious experience in his early thirties. By 396 he had become bishop of Hippo, and his sermons and writings gained fame, notably his Confessions and the treatise City of God. His notions of God's grace, free will and Original Sin had a great influence on Christian theology. Best Known As
Influential Christian thinker
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  #15  
Unread 29th March 2011, 02:58 PM
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Originally Posted by GadFly View Post
The point is, even if you think allegorically or not, if your conclusions are based on scripture, that keeps you away from being a liberal. What a liberal does today is to determine his Christianity through human reasoning rather than scriptures or at least scriptures are not primary.
I disagree with the statement liberal is the only reasoning process rather than scriptures. I also firmly belive conservative thinking is much the cause of the problems today. Conservative thinking is like putting blinders on yours eyes you can't see the entire picture. To my dismay many denominatrions take and twist the bible around to suite their needs and some take word for word without examining the whole picture. Liberal thinking when its used correctly opens your eyes to Gods Word.
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  #16  
Unread 29th March 2011, 04:48 PM
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Originally Posted by Sidheil View Post
Oh, I think I see. If you start from reasoned out conclusions and interpret Scripture in light of them, that's liberal. If you start with Scripture and reason out conclusions from that, then you are not. Correct?
Sarcasm does not clarify a definition. Nobody is devaluing a logical process; but to allow the mind of Christ to be in that process is a major difference in Christianity and a liberal religion, which is based on the interpersonal relationships of the world. The conclusions of Jesus Christ's reasoning is to be taken into the world or society. Even if it is socially embarrassing to teach Christian ethics, the Great Commission makes no excuses for us. Jesus said for us to be aware of the leaven of religious leaders. He stressed following the whole law and forbid others to teach otherwise. I make no excuse for using God as my premises for reasoning. If you know of a more absolute premise for arriving at conclusions, give it to us and suspense with the sarcasm, which does keep us from the truth.
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  #17  
Unread 29th March 2011, 05:15 PM
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Originally Posted by tsr View Post
I disagree with the statement liberal is the only reasoning process rather than scriptures. I also firmly belive conservative thinking is much the cause of the problems today. Conservative thinking is like putting blinders on yours eyes you can't see the entire picture. To my dismay many denominatrions take and twist the bible around to suite their needs and some take word for word without examining the whole picture. Liberal thinking when its used correctly opens your eyes to Gods Word.
We must be careful how we define our terms. We do not differ in anything my brother. What you view as conservative reasoning is not good reasoning at all. It would be more correct to call what you refer to as conservative reasoning as irrationality.

Theologically liberal reasoning proceeds without God. Conservative reasoning proceeds with the premise that there is a God. People who call themselves conservative and those we label as right wing do make many blunders. But that is not what we are talking about when we talk about the danders of liberal theology. To be logically consistent, what this thread is saying is that it is dangerous to go forward without God.

This thread is not a defense of right or left wing religious nuts. It is an attempt to put the word of God in the correct Christian perspective.
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  #18  
Unread 29th March 2011, 05:22 PM
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Originally Posted by tsr View Post
I disagree with the statement liberal is the only reasoning process rather than scriptures. I also firmly belive conservative thinking is much the cause of the problems today. Conservative thinking is like putting blinders on yours eyes you can't see the entire picture. To my dismay many denominatrions take and twist the bible around to suite their needs and some take word for word without examining the whole picture. Liberal thinking when its used correctly opens your eyes to Gods Word.
One more point, if I may. Using the definition given by the OP and his theological sources, it is not possible to use liberal thinking correctly and to open eyes to God's word. According to the definition of this thread, liberal and God are in opposition to each other. Otherwise, using another definition, I agree with you.
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  #19  
Unread 29th March 2011, 08:31 PM
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Honestly, I intended no sarcasm. All rational thought processes need a viewpoint, a foundation. You can use Scripture as that foundation. Or, you can use a different foundation and look at Scripture in light of that. That's all I meant to say, no sarcasm..
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Unread 29th March 2011, 09:22 PM
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"liberal thinking when its used correctly opens your eyes to God Word".

Originally Posted by tsr View Post
I disagree with the statement liberal is the only reasoning process rather than scriptures. I also firmly believe conservative thinking is much the cause of the problems today. Conservative thinking is like putting blinders on yours eyes you can't see the entire picture. To my dismay many denominations take and twist the bible around to suite their needs and some take word for word without examining the whole picture. Liberal thinking when its used correctly opens your eyes to Gods Word.
I would disagree with the thought that "liberal thinking when its used correctly opens your eyes to God Word".

There is too many parts of liberal theology that completely contradicts the Scriptures. If you find yourself in disagreeing with any part of scripture then the entire Bible has to come into serious question.

I find that the reason that most people like to question parts of the Bible is to cover up the sin in their own lives. The Bible was given to us to set a road map to Heaven and no place that I have read between its covers are we given the right to pick and choose the parts we want to accept and reject the parts that fits our theology.
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