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Eschatology - Endtimes & Prophecy Forum The Endtimes & Prophecy Forum for the discussion of future events. No full preterist views. Partial preterists welcomed.

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  #1  
Unread 23rd March 2011, 09:31 PM
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Keturah's Children

I have not done an indepth study but it occurred to me today that there is no mention (that I see) of what happens to Keturah's children by Abraham.I believe, Looking at the Middle Eastern involvement in the end time scenario, and knowing a little bit about who all is involved, this is slippery for me Anybody want to help me sort this through?

Gen.25:1 Abraham had taken another wife, whose name was Keturah. 2 She bore him Zimran, Jokshan, Medan, Midian, Ishbak and Shuah. 3 Jokshan was the father of Sheba and Dedan; the descendants of Dedan were the Ashurites, the Letu[bless and do not curse][bless and do not curse][bless and do not curse][bless and do not curse]es and the Leummites. 4 The sons of Midian were Ephah, Epher, Hanok, Abida and Eldaah. All these were descendants of Keturah.

I know Medianis Arabia, but I don't know to much about the others. Where did they settle. I doubt that they don't exist today.
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  #2  
Unread 24th March 2011, 12:25 AM
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Originally Posted by Handmaid for Jesus View Post
I have not done an indepth study but it occurred to me today that there is no mention (that I see) of what happens to Keturah's children by Abraham.I believe, Looking at the Middle Eastern involvement in the end time scenario, and knowing a little bit about who all is involved, this is slippery for me Anybody want to help me sort this through?
The middle east is filled with them, and also India.
Ishbak settled in what is named after him: Usbekistan

Midianites intermarried with Ismael's line. Moses took a Midianite wife [second wife: first was an Ethiopian].

Here is a link to a book page that will help.
Cyclopaedia of Biblical, theological ... - Google Books
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  #3  
Unread 24th March 2011, 12:40 AM
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Originally Posted by yeshuasavedme View Post
The middle east is filled with them, and also India.
Ishbak settled in what is named after him: Usbekistan

Midianites intermarried with Ismael's line. Moses took a Midianite wife [second wife: first was an Ethiopian].

Here is a link to a book page that will help.
Cyclopaedia of Biblical, theological ... - Google Books
Thanks for the link Yeshuasavedme, I will look it up tomorrow, I am ready for bed now. Thanks too for the information I asked for. I thought Moses first wife was Jethro's daughter. Was he married before he married her? Jethro was a Midianite.
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Unread 24th March 2011, 02:51 AM
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Originally Posted by Handmaid for Jesus View Post
Thanks for the link Yeshuasavedme, I will look it up tomorrow, I am ready for bed now. Thanks too for the information I asked for. I thought Moses first wife was Jethro's daughter. Was he married before he married her? Jethro was a Midianite.
Moses married an Ethiopian woman before He married Zipporah, who was descended from Midian [Abraham and Keturah].
Reuel and Jethro are one and the same man, a Midianite.
Cush and Ethiopia are one and the same nation, descendants of Cush.

Num 12:1 And Miriam and Aaron spake against Moses because of the Ethiopian woman whom he had married: for he had married an Ethiopian woman.

Exd 3:1 Now Moses kept the flock of Jethro his father in law, the priest of Midian: and he led the flock to the backside of the desert, and came to the mountain of God, [even] to Horeb.
Exd 2:18 And when they came to Reuel their father, he said, How [is it that] ye are come so soon to day?
Exd 2:21 And Moses was content to dwell with the man: and he gave Moses Zipporah his daughter.

The Ethiopian woman was wife of the King of Cush, who had died. Moses was installed as king of Cush by the will of the people for his wisdom in delivering them in war, counseling the king how to win, and he got the late king's wife as a politically expedient thing to do.
He ruled the nation of Cush for forty years, which rule began 9 years after fleeing Egypt. After that, the wife asked that the late king's son -who was quite grown up- be installed as king. The people agreed. Moses left the nation in peace and with many gifts -and lots of learning on how to be a king, and then went to Midian at age 67.
He did not immediately get Zipporah for a wife, but was put in a dungeon by her father for 10 years, because Reuel had formerly been a counselor to Pharaoh in Egypt, and feared harboring Moses, the Egyptian prince, so he imprisoned him.

No one came for Moses, and Zipporah fed him in secret all those ten years, and asked that he be released after that. Jethro ended up releasing him, and Moses performed a miracle [which was the basis of the King Arthur story, methinks], and got the daughter for a wife. Three years later, aged 80, with two young children under 3, he took off for Egypt with the wife, and children. Jethro had talked him out of circumcising the oldest, and he was met by the angel who would slay him for not having been obedient to YHWH. Zipporah circumcised the oldest [the youngest was circumcised], saving his life, and then Moses went on his way to meet Aaron.
Aaron chewed him out for bringing the wife and children, so Moses sent them back to Jethro, who later brought them to Moses again after Israel was delivered from Egypt, two years later.

The history of Moses correlates with his history in Genesis, which is redacted much, but the Ethiopian wife was left in Cush -he never went in to her, either, considering the marriage only politically expedient, but Miriam and Aaron spoke against him for it, and got punished by God.
Moses history is in the real book of Jasher.
Jasher Chapter 72 - The Book of Jasher Published by J.H. Parry & Company 1887
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Last edited by yeshuasavedme; 24th March 2011 at 02:57 AM.
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Unread 24th March 2011, 06:58 AM
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Thanks again.I have read a little of Jasher. It seems to fill in the blanks of history as we know it from the Bible.
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Unread 24th March 2011, 01:41 PM
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Hey Yeshuasavedme, I have been reading the cyclopedia link you gave me. It gives a Sheba and Dedan who are the sons of Raamah son of Cush. These are not Keturah's children. Keturah did have sons named Sheba and Dedan though as posted in the scripture above. So these cannot be the same peoples as Cush is from the Hamite line and Abraham is a descendant from Shem.
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Unread 24th March 2011, 01:53 PM
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Originally Posted by Handmaid for Jesus View Post
Hey Yeshuasavedme, I have been reading the cyclopedia link you gave me. It gives a Sheba and Dedan who are the sons of Raamah son of Cush. These are not Keturah's children. Keturah did have sons named Sheba and Dedan though as posted in the scripture above. So these cannot be the same peoples as Cush is from the Hamite line and Abraham is a descendant from Shem.
I know there are both, but follow more search links and see that Sheba and Dedan mentioned in the Saudi Arabian Peninsula are from Abraham and Keturah. We have the same names today for many cities in many places, too.
Cush did not go to the Peninsula. No sons of Ham went there and built cities [at least that I am aware of]. Sheba is Yemen, and the Yemenites are from Abraham and Keturah. -http://www.yemenweb.com/Travel.htm
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Last edited by yeshuasavedme; 24th March 2011 at 01:59 PM.
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Unread 24th March 2011, 02:45 PM
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OK I have been at this site
Descendants of Abraham Part IV: Sons of Keturah (No. 212D)

Now here they talk about Saudi Arabia being the home of Keturah's sons. I knew that Midian settled there but I was not so sure about the others.

here is an excerp.

Zimran
Zimran was the first son of Abraham by Keturah; his name means musical or musician (SHD 2175). The main city occupied by Zimran and his descendants was called Zabram, supposedly located west of Mecca. It is thought to be the same as the Zimri of Jeremiah 25:25. It is mentioned by Jeremiah for destruction along with Elam and the kings of the Medes. Thus we are dealing with the destruction of the Saudi Arabian coastlands. Jeremiah 25 deals with the entire destruction of the Middle East commencing with Jerusalem and the princes of Judah to make them a hissing and a curse and from there on to Egypt and all the Middle East, nation by nation. We will examine this aspect separately.

Hastings’ Dictionary says of the place name Zimran:
Possibly Knobel is right in connecting it with Zabram of Ptolemy (VI.vii.5), W. of Mecca, on the Red Sea. We may perhaps compare also ZIMRI of Jer 2525. The name is derived from zemer, ‘mountain-sheep or -goat,’ this animal having doubtless been the totem of the clan. (p. 982)

We can see that the sons of Keturah moved into the Arabian peninsular before Israel even went into Egypt, and some remained there at least until Jeremiah.
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Unread 24th March 2011, 02:54 PM
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No sons of Ham went there and built cities [at least that I am aware of].
No, they went and built Assyria (Nineveh, Babylon, etc)
Genesis 10:8
Cush was the father of Nimrod, who became a mighty warrior on the earth.
Micah 5:6
who will rule the land of Assyria with the sword, the land of Nimrod with drawn sword. He will deliver us from the Assyrians when they invade our land and march across our borders.
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Unread 24th March 2011, 03:16 PM
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Originally Posted by Handmaid for Jesus View Post
No, they went and built Assyria (Nineveh, Babylon, etc)
Genesis 10:8
Cush was the father of Nimrod, who became a mighty warrior on the earth.
Micah 5:6
who will rule the land of Assyria with the sword, the land of Nimrod with drawn sword. He will deliver us from the Assyrians when they invade our land and march across our borders.
Those aren't on the Saudi Peninsula, which is where Yemen/Sheba and Dedan are, which is what I said -see:
I know there are both, but follow more search links and see that Sheba and Dedan mentioned in the Saudi Arabian Peninsula are from Abraham and Keturah. We have the same names today for many cities in many places, too.
Cush did not go to the Peninsula. No sons of Ham went there and built cities [at least that I am aware of].
Ninevah was built by Assur, Shem's descendant.
Gen 10:11 Out of that land went forth Asshur, and builded Nineveh, and the city Rehoboth, and Calah,Gen 10:22 The children of Shem; Elam, and Asshur, and Arphaxad, and Lud, and Aram.

Jasher 10
Jasher Chapter 10 - The Book of Jasher Published by J.H. Parry & Company 1887
And the sons of Shem were Elam, Ashur, Arpachshad, Lud and Aram, and they built themselves cities and called the names of all their cities after their names.
32

And Ashur son of Shem and his children and household went forth at that time, a very large body of them, and they went to a distant land that they found, and they met with a very extensive valley in the land that they went to, and they built themselves four cities, and they called them after their own names and occurrences.
33

And these are the names of the cities which the children of Ashur built, Ninevah, Resen, Calach and Rehobother; and the children of Ashur dwell there unto this day.
34

And the children of Aram also went and built themselves a city, and they called the name of the city Uz after their eldest brother, and they dwell therein; that is the land of Uz to this day.
35

And in the second year after the tower a man from the house of Ashur, whose name was Bela, went from the land of Ninevah to sojourn with his household wherever he could find a place; and they came until opposite the cities of the plain against Sodom, and they dwelt there.
36

And the man rose up and built there a small city, and called its name Bela, after his name; that is the land of Zoar unto this day.
37

And these are the families of the children of Shem according to their language and cities, after they were scattered upon the earth after the tower.
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