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Old 23rd March 2011, 03:56 PM
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Jesus is Hardly a Pacifist (Neither is St. Michael, nor Gandalf)

Whenever the Gospel scene of Jesus cleansing the Temple comes up in conversation, is it always entertaining to see people try to rationalize or explain away the anger that our Lord displayed. There are those who will say that this is a demonstration of Jesus’ humanity, but such an explanation always seems to have an accompanying tinge of “perfect divinity, imperfect humanity.” After all, when we say of someone, “He is only human,” we are usually doing so to justify an imperfect action or reaction, as if to say, “He is human, and therefore not perfect.” Such an accusation of Jesus is misleading at best. Yes, Jesus is human, fully human, in fact, as well as fully divine. However, Jesus is perfect in his humanity. Therefore, any reaction he gives is the perfect reaction to the situation that stands before him. This is good news for the rest of us, for it demonstrates that humanity in both its core and destiny is fundamentally good, that imperfections found within all of us are the result of sin (both original and personal), and not the result of being human as such. Therefore, the perfection that Jesus possesses in being fully human is a perfection that awaits us, God willing, in our glorified state.

What then, should we make of the anger demonstrated by Jesus in his cleansing of the Temple? The first conclusion we can draw is that there is a place for a righteous anger in dealing with the problem of sin. Of course, we should not mistake this kind of anger for the irrational, impatient, and reactionary kind that we so often demonstrate in our lives. But Jesus is hardly a pacifist. To get a better sense of righteous anger, it helps to consider a few examples. The first we will take from the life of Jesus, the second from the archangel Michael, and the third from that master of myth, J.R.R. Tolkien.


First, consider the scene where Peter questions whether Jesus must actually undergo suffering and death. From the Gospel of Matthew 16:21-23:
From that time on, Jesus began to show his disciples that he must go to Jerusalem and undergo great suffering at the hands of the elders and chief priests and scribes, and be killed, and on the third day be raised.

And Peter took him aside and began to rebuke him, saying, “God forbid it, Lord! This must never happen to you.”

But he turned and said to Peter, “Get behind me, Satan! You are a stumbling block to me; for you are setting your mind not on divine things but on human things.”
Jesus’ response is jarring. After all, was not Peter only looking out for the well-being of his teacher and friend? Jesus the pacifist pop-psychologist would have sat Peter down and calmly explained, “Now, Peter, you are not understanding the importance of what I have said. I know this is hard for you, but in due time you will come to understand. For now, let’s have a beer, and join me in a verse of Kumbaya.” But such was not Jesus’ reaction. Instead, he jarred Peter and the other disciples out of their foolishness, emphasizing the importance of his pending death and resurrection and the providence of the Father. If this were a film, one could almost see the camera pan in for a close up of Jesus, the sky darkening behind him, and a fiery glow on his face. The background audio would be eliminated and the voice of Christ would change from normal “human” discourse to the booming voice of God, the Second Person of the Trinity: “Get behind me, Satan! You are a stumbling block to me; for you are setting your mind not on divine things but on human things.”
Continued- http://the-american-catholic.com/2011/03/23/jesus-is-hardly-a-pacifist-neither-is-st-michael-nor-gandalf/
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Old 23rd March 2011, 04:27 PM
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The article seems to have a particular and rather simplistic view of what pacifism is.
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Old 23rd March 2011, 04:59 PM
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Originally Posted by ebia View Post
The article seems to have a particular and rather simplistic view of what pacifism is.
I couldn't see one iota of evidence in the article to justify the comment that Jesus was not a pacifist .

To have righteous anger is not to deny pacifism .
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Old 23rd March 2011, 05:05 PM
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Originally Posted by rawson View Post
I couldn't see one iota of evidence in the article to justify the comment that Jesus was not a pacifist .

To have righteous anger is not to deny pacifism .
That's what I mean - it seems to build a strawman to demolish, where pacifism is being 'nice' all the time.
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Old 23rd March 2011, 05:27 PM
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Pacifism has too many credible definitions. In WWI pacifism was a rejection of violence but it allowed for the belief that a just war could be allowed to create peace. At other times, before and after that, if was and is the opposition to any kind of war.

Christ is not opposed to a just war. He is opposed to a mindset of war that excludes attempts at real peace. Christ is a peacemaker. But He is also in support of opposing evil with physical action if necessary and it promotes peace. One must strive for peace always, but be ready to oppose actual evil at a cost.

So He fits some definitions of pacifism but not others. Christ blesses those who work for peace, but He also shows us that there are times when we can not let evil rampage unopposed. So He is a Pacifist in the sense that the Latin pacifici is one who works for peace. He is not a pacifist in the sense that war can never be justified.
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Old 23rd March 2011, 05:50 PM
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I like to picture my Jesu with a bible in one hand and a uzi in the other.

Uzi does it.
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Old 23rd March 2011, 09:36 PM
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Originally Posted by Andrew Ryan View Post
I like to picture my Jesu with a bible in one hand and a uzi in the other.

Uzi does it.
There will be a second coming in which justice will be the emphasis.

Matthew 21:33-46
33 "Hear another parable: There was a certain landowner who planted a vineyard and set a hedge around it, dug a winepress in it and built a tower. And he leased it to vinedressers and went into a far country. 34 Now when vintage-time drew near, he sent his servants to the vinedressers, that they might receive its fruit. 35And the vinedressers took his servants, beat one, killed one, and stoned another. 36 Again he sent other servants, more than the first, and they did likewise to them. 37 Then last of all he sent his son to them, saying, 'They will respect my son.' 38 But when the vinedressers saw the son, they said among themselves, 'This is the heir. Come, let us kill him and seize his inheritance.' 39 So they took him and cast him out of the vineyard and killed him.
40 "Therefore, when the owner of the vineyard comes, what will he do to those vinedressers?" 41 They said to Him, "He will destroy those wicked men miserably, and lease his vineyard to other vinedressers who will render to him the fruits in their seasons." 42 Jesus said to them, "Have you never read in the Scriptures: 'The stone which the builders rejected Has become the chief cornerstone. This was the Lord's doing, And it is marvelous in our eyes'?
43 "Therefore I say to you, the kingdom of God will be taken from you and given to a nation bearing the fruits of it. 44 And whoever falls on this stone will be broken; but on whomever it falls, it will grind him to powder."
45 Now when the chief priests and Pharisees heard His parables, they perceived that He was speaking of them. 46 But when they sought to lay hands on Him, they feared the multitudes, because they took Him for a prophet

Article Source: The Parable of the Landowner Made Simple - Matthew 21:33-46
There is a time for everything;
a time to kill, and a time to heal.
A time for war, and a time for peace.

Wisdom seeks those times in order to give the correct response in the ordained time.
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