| Unorthodox Theology A forum to discuss/debate theological doctrines not accepted by mainstream evangelical Christianity (eg. Full Preterism, Unitarianism)
Orthodox* and Unorthodox members welcome |
 | | 
21st March 2011, 01:50 PM
| | Newbie
   
| | Join Date: 21st March 2011
Posts: 5
Blessings: 5,036,227
Reps: 9,490,942,451,213,298 (power: 0) | | | Meditation
Hi Folks
New to the forum - not sure whether this thread is appropriate here. Anyway, does anyone have a view on the role of meditation in Christian worship and prayer.
Does anyone find it useful? I am aware that some of Christian faith believe it to be a little taboo, but I am not sure why. Does anybody have any knowledge of this?
It is referred to in the Bible - mostly in Psalms - as a positive experience.
Today I am aware that it is being deployed in the secular in many ways, now as a treatment for chronic depression by the NHS and even being used in education, and this backed by professors from prestigious UK universities such as Oxford and Cambridge. It seems to be having a positive effect outside of religion on general welfare. Does anyone have any views on any of this? Can it be used in the secular as well as for a religious cause?
Where it's referred to in the Bible, is it a different kind of meditation that Christians might involve themselves when in prayer? Would this be the kind of meditation that Christ would have used during his forty day ordeal in the desert?
Would hermits or anchorites have meditated in their isolation in a similar way, and how different might this be to the kind that was used in ancient eastern religions?
Last edited by Celiadaw; 21st March 2011 at 01:55 PM.
|
21st March 2011, 02:04 PM
|  | Newbie
 
| | Join Date: 11th August 2010
Posts: 565
Blessings: 22,251
Reps: 10,297,055,791,774,210 (power: 10,297,055,791,777) | | Originally Posted by Celiadaw  Hi Folks
New to the forum - not sure whether this thread is appropriate here. Anyway, does anyone have a view on the role of meditation in Christian worship and prayer.
Does anyone find it useful? I am aware that some of Christian faith believe it to be a little taboo, but I am not sure why. Does anybody have any knowledge of this?
It is referred to in the Bible - mostly in Psalms - as a positive experience.
Today I am aware that it is being deployed in the secular in many ways, now as a treatment for chronic depression by the NHS and even being used in education, and this backed by professors from prestigious UK universities such as Oxford and Cambridge. It seems to be having a positive effect outside of religion on general welfare. Does anyone have any views on any of this? Can it be used in the secular as well as for a religious cause?
Where it's referred to in the Bible, is it a different kind of meditation that Christians might involve themselves when in prayer? Would this be the kind of meditation that Christ would have used during his forty day ordeal in the desert?
Would hermits or anchorites have meditated in their isolation in a similar way, and how different might this be to the kind that was used in ancient eastern religions?
there's appropriate meditation and inappropriate meditation. One shouldn't substitute meditation for say prayer. one shouldn't used meditation to get in contact with the spirit world as some do, One shouldn't go overboard with meditation. One should meditate on problems they are having, trying to understand things. Meditation has the conotation of trying to contact the spirit realm to many christians and thus they rightfully condemn if for that, but they aslo sometimes go overboard and say all meditation is evil. Everyone meditates on some things. everyone meditates every day in little ways, meditation is just thinking,and most people do think. I had to meditate on how to answer your post.
Guys are really good at meditation, that's one of the things about fishing that makes it appealing, cause they just sit in a boat thinking/meditating most of the time. guys like to go off by themselves and think things through when they have a problem (that's meditation). It's relaxing and the pressure is off so they can calmly think it all through. Gals on the other hand tend to want to get other peoples opinions and advice with their problems. I wont even ask for directions when driving except as a last resort, my wife on the other hand, that's the first think she thinks of, ask someone where it is. (
It's cause guys and gals have different brains, no kiddin.
Last edited by Superfast; 21st March 2011 at 02:19 PM.
|
21st March 2011, 02:45 PM
|  | Christian Gnostic
 
 | | Join Date: 24th February 2011
Posts: 3,601
Blessings: 21,167,079 My Mood 
Reps: 267,307,473,600,564,704 (power: 267,307,473,600,570) | | Originally Posted by Celiadaw Hi Folks
New to the forum - not sure whether this thread is appropriate here. Anyway, does anyone have a view on the role of meditation in Christian worship and prayer.
Does anyone find it useful? I am aware that some of Christian faith believe it to be a little taboo, but I am not sure why. Does anybody have any knowledge of this?
It is referred to in the Bible - mostly in Psalms - as a positive experience.
Today I am aware that it is being deployed in the secular in many ways, now as a treatment for chronic depression by the NHS and even being used in education, and this backed by professors from prestigious UK universities such as Oxford and Cambridge. It seems to be having a positive effect outside of religion on general welfare. Does anyone have any views on any of this? Can it be used in the secular as well as for a religious cause?
Where it's referred to in the Bible, is it a different kind of meditation that Christians might involve themselves when in prayer? Would this be the kind of meditation that Christ would have used during his forty day ordeal in the desert?
Would hermits or anchorites have meditated in their isolation in a similar way, and how different might this be to the kind that was used in ancient eastern religions?
Prayerful meditation is absolutely of positive benefit. To meditate properly is to bring yourself back to your inner essence, your I AM, if you will, that is and was you before you accumulated the baggage of the world.
You will know you have done it properly, when you can answer honestly, "I am" to the question "who are you?". Anything and everything else is merely what you do, or a label that someone else has placed upon you. "I am", is the sum total of your experiences and qualities.
Doing this, you make yourself again like a little child, with (at the time of meditation) no past and no future, just the now that is outside of time.
This is when the Christ within can have full access to your heart, without having to fight through all of your fears and beliefs.
__________________
Pastor Alpha& Omega Christian Gnostic Church(retired)
To view links or images in signatures your post count must be 10 or greater. You currently have 0 posts.
Gnosis(direct experiential knowledge of God) It's not an "oh cool I'm a god" type thing. It's a calling up everybody you have ever known since childhood and apologizing for being a JERK type thing.~ Bro. Spark
Find Sophia's match for you at Gnosticmingle.com<-Not a real link "Duh"
|
21st March 2011, 05:57 PM
| | Senior Contributor
70   
| | Join Date: 10th June 2008 Location: Maryborough, QLD, Australia
Posts: 8,211
Blessings: 1,421,464
Reps: 341,443,135,782,654,208 (power: 0) | | | Good responses.
I would ease your mind by drawing attention to the number of retreat centres hosted by Christian churches. |
21st March 2011, 09:15 PM
| | Veteran
 
| | Join Date: 23rd December 2010 Location: Montevideo Uruguay
Posts: 1,627
Blessings: 37,862 My Mood 
Reps: 120,216,833,064,231,136 (power: 0) | | Originally Posted by Celiadaw Hi Folks
New to the forum - not sure whether this thread is appropriate here. Anyway, does anyone have a view on the role of meditation in Christian worship and prayer.
Christian meditation was introduced by rick warren as well he introduced many practices from non-christians (orientals) and from non-protestants (catholics). In a chrch I quit assisting, the pastor after preaching invited all to close eyes and meditate in silence in presence of God as in a praying attitude. Then while every of us were meditating in silence with our hart opens and all our mind defenses lowered, he, the pastor commenced talking and guiding our thots. That was kind a brainwash. he has everybody with the day by day walls and defences down, and he has free entrance to our thinking.
That manipulation tipical of oriental "religions" is not aceptable by itself. But not only that; christians shal never meditate (in the oriental meaning). We can ponder diferent situations and words, we are told to analize all and retain the good. But that is not the introspective meditation orientals and Rick warren practice.
Introspective meditations go deep in our mind trying to explore it, to reveal our feelings and pt in light our hiden thots. That is acvtually the job of the Holy Spirit and the tool is the Bible wich is a sword entering deep in our soul. introspective meditation is a carnal action, a flesh subtitute of the Holy Spirit.
Not only that. Paul say that we can not judge ourselves. that is introspective meditation, searching in our inside. Paul ays that if he (we) found himself guilty it does not mean he is. And if he (we) found himsel not guilty it does not means he is not. he (paul) dont explin much why. but he say that the human hart is a big lier that is confusing us and is not to something to relate on.
meditating, searching our mind and hart is not good for Christians. is the Holy Spirit who has to show out our sins, and who must move us.  |
21st March 2011, 09:31 PM
| | Christian Gnostic
| | Join Date: 24th February 2011
Posts: 3,601
Blessings: 21,167,079 My Mood
Reps: 267,307,473,600,564,704 (power: 267,307,473,600,570) | | Originally Posted by Goinheix Christian meditation was introduced by rick warren
I am sorry you had a bad experience at the hand of an unscrupulous man. However, don't throw the baby out with the bath--- Meditation, if properly done, is a powerful tool that can be very useful in assisting someone through life's pitfalls. I.e., someone who has anger issues, can use meditation to explore the self and correct those issues. Or issues with lust, or avarice!
"Cleaning the inside of the cup", is not just useful, it is also one of our Lord's commandments. Meditation is a spot light that illuminates the dirt and debris, so that it can be scrubbed away.
Godly is as Godly Does
__________________
Pastor Alpha& Omega Christian Gnostic Church(retired)
To view links or images in signatures your post count must be 10 or greater. You currently have 0 posts.
Gnosis(direct experiential knowledge of God) It's not an "oh cool I'm a god" type thing. It's a calling up everybody you have ever known since childhood and apologizing for being a JERK type thing.~ Bro. Spark
Find Sophia's match for you at Gnosticmingle.com<-Not a real link "Duh"
|
22nd March 2011, 08:13 AM
| | Newbie
| | Join Date: 21st March 2011
Posts: 5
Blessings: 5,036,227
Reps: 9,490,942,451,213,298 (power: 0) | | Originally Posted by Soulgazer Prayerful meditation is absolutely of positive benefit. To meditate properly is to bring yourself back to your inner essence, your I AM, if you will, that is and was you before you accumulated the baggage of the world.
You will know you have done it properly, when you can answer honestly, "I am" to the question "who are you?". Anything and everything else is merely what you do, or a label that someone else has placed upon you. "I am", is the sum total of your experiences and qualities.
Doing this, you make yourself again like a little child, with (at the time of meditation) no past and no future, just the now that is outside of time.
This is when the Christ within can have full access to your heart, without having to fight through all of your fears and beliefs.
I am totally new to using any kind of online forum so forgive me if this reply goes off course.
I agree with the view expressed by Soulgazer and prefer to meditate myself and experience this as a state of being, a stillness that I find very peaceful. It feels totally good. I would like to have a greater understanding of how this wonderful state of being, which to my mind has a connection with being still in the presence of the Lord, is used in conventional Christian worship and prayer.
Can anyone enlighten me a little for example of what kything and lectio divina might be? |
22nd March 2011, 08:21 AM
| | Newbie
| | Join Date: 21st March 2011
Posts: 5
Blessings: 5,036,227
Reps: 9,490,942,451,213,298 (power: 0) | | Originally Posted by Goinheix Christian meditation was introduced by rick warren as well he introduced many practices from non-christians (orientals) and from non-protestants (catholics). In a chrch I quit assisting, the pastor after preaching invited all to close eyes and meditate in silence in presence of God as in a praying attitude. Then while every of us were meditating in silence with our hart opens and all our mind defenses lowered, he, the pastor commenced talking and guiding our thots. That was kind a brainwash. he has everybody with the day by day walls and defences down, and he has free entrance to our thinking.
That manipulation tipical of oriental "religions" is not aceptable by itself. But not only that; christians shal never meditate (in the oriental meaning). We can ponder diferent situations and words, we are told to analize all and retain the good. But that is not the introspective meditation orientals and Rick warren practice.
Introspective meditations go deep in our mind trying to explore it, to reveal our feelings and pt in light our hiden thots. That is acvtually the job of the Holy Spirit and the tool is the Bible wich is a sword entering deep in our soul. introspective meditation is a carnal action, a flesh subtitute of the Holy Spirit.
Not only that. Paul say that we can not judge ourselves. that is introspective meditation, searching in our inside. Paul ays that if he (we) found himself guilty it does not mean he is. And if he (we) found himsel not guilty it does not means he is not. he (paul) dont explin much why. but he say that the human hart is a big lier that is confusing us and is not to something to relate on.
meditating, searching our mind and hart is not good for Christians. is the Holy Spirit who has to show out our sins, and who must move us.
I am so sorry that you had such a bad experience of meditation. I prefer to just call it 'being quiet' and as this requires such mental discipline to achieve, I can only do this on my own without others around to distract me. There are experts who can become quiet whether surrounded by people or not, by I am not as good as this.
Meditation is not a searching of the mind and heart but in a metaphorical sense is more to do with cleansing both, wiping them free of earthly clutter in order to be still to recieve God's word. |
22nd March 2011, 08:35 AM
|  | The beginning of wisdom-knowing you know nothing
| | Join Date: 2nd August 2010 Location: Australia
Posts: 233
Blessings: 111,095 My Mood 
Reps: 222,717,400,648,650,816 (power: 222,717,400,648,653) | | | close your eyes take your mind off your troubles, be aware of your body. Feel the peace of the presence of god. Ask God to fill you with his spirit and talk to you. Wait quietly without thoughts racing through your head. think of bible verses,wait to see if the holy spirit gives you a vision or something else.
Some call it meditation call it what you will I love doing it. its a benefit of my Christianity. I don't care if there are parallels with other beliefs. I enjoy it too much. It is so beneficial.
If That is meditation yeah I do it all the time. It changed my life for the better.
God seems to talk to you best when your mind is prepared and quieter. For me there is a better chance of a 2 way chat.
__________________
Almost relevant quote- From obscure author nobody knows including me, that makes me sound well read and intelligent (missing).
Last edited by ChrisLeishy; 22nd March 2011 at 08:43 AM.
|
22nd March 2011, 08:01 PM
| | Traveler
 
| | Join Date: 9th December 2010 Location: Utah - I travel often
Posts: 475
Blessings: 45,192
Reps: 1,517,285,009,273,442 (power: 1,517,285,009,276) | | | I will begin by making a statement concerning mediation. The statement is: There is a difference between mediation and self hypnosis.
Like most things that relate to our mortal existence - there is no intrinsic good or evil but good or evil result from how and why such things are used. I would define mediation as inwardly reflective to become aware - usually self aware but there are other awareness; whereas self hypnosis is an actual state of altered consciousness.
I discovered at a young age that I was able to place myself in a trans like state when going to the dentist to have work done rather than receive Novocain. I personally prefer this to walking around for a half a day afterwards without feeling or control of much of my face.
I also discovered as a cyclist that curing century races that I began listening to myself and becoming aware of my physical activity at a different level. I created a “rhythm” with my physical activity, breathing, heart rate and other biorhythms (like eating and drinking in rhythm). I also could clear my mind and ponder the landscape of particular doctrines, concepts and spiritual yearnings but most of all I could become aware of thoughts that would come to me as though they were my own. I believe that many thoughts come to us pretending to be from G-d and many are deceived because they do not explorer or learn of to differentiate thoughts - thus the great differences among individuals concerning religion and nature of G-d.
Son of Zadok | | |
| Thread Tools | | | | Display Modes |  Linear Mode |
| | |
