When you have proved ot me that you have asked me for the evidence i will give it, something so far you have failed to do.
I've asked you for Scriptural support for your position that same-sex marriage is a sin.
None has been forthcoming.
And it's all getting a bit boring, frankly.
David.
__________________ David Brider
"...God demonstrates his own love for us in this: While we were still sinners, Christ died for us." (Romans 5:8)
Trying to follow Christ daily.
With heads uncovered swear we all
To bear it onward till we fall;
Come dungeons dark or gallows grim,
This song shall be our parting hymn.
So raise the scarlet standard high.
Beneath its folds we'll live and die,
Though cowards flinch and traitors sneer,
We'll keep the red flag flying here.
You're the one who keeps wanting to turn a discussion about marriage into a discussion about sex.
Ok so why did you?
Why did I what?
Of course its sexual if I can have loving relationships with men and not be homosexual then homosexual is about sexual perversions.
No, being homosexual is about experiencing physical and romantic attraction to people of the same sex as oneself. Same as being heterosexual is about experiencing physical and romantic attraction to people of the opposite sex to yourself. Nothing to do with sexual perversion.
David.
__________________ David Brider
"...God demonstrates his own love for us in this: While we were still sinners, Christ died for us." (Romans 5:8)
Trying to follow Christ daily.
With heads uncovered swear we all
To bear it onward till we fall;
Come dungeons dark or gallows grim,
This song shall be our parting hymn.
So raise the scarlet standard high.
Beneath its folds we'll live and die,
Though cowards flinch and traitors sneer,
We'll keep the red flag flying here.
It's based on a very faulty understanding of what homosexuality is, and attempts to shoehorn that into the author's understanding of a handful of Biblical passages that are mainly about sex, rather than relationships.
Its God’s word and so not faulty for those who believe and have faith in God. Homosexuality by definition is same sex attraction and acts, so the Biblical prohibitions that describe acts of men with men instead of women are homosexual.
In what way would it make rape of women okay?
it what way wouldn’t it?
If what you call "majority mainstream Christianity" is so happy to consider same-sex marriage to be sinful despite a complete lack of Biblical support for such a position, then frankly, I'm not sure I'd want to be part of it.
If you don’t call majority mainstream Christian churches mainstream Christianity then your real issue is with Christianity not homosexuality.
Fortunately, in my experience mainstream Christianity is rather more diverse than you like to make out.
Sadly you haven’t given any indication that you can recognise mainstream Christianity.
David Brider,
There is no need for the Biblical prohibitions of same sex relations, God's creation purpose is man and woman in marriage. Gen 2, Matt 19, Mark 10 and Eph 5 for example.
The condemnations ..
David Brider,
Ezekiel didnt miss anything, you did though an you do every time.
The primary sins of Sodom was not homosexual practices, no one has claimed they were, all you have done is try and deny every condemnation of homosexual practice.
In context..49 “‘Now this was the sin of your sister Sodom: She and her daughters were arrogant, overfed and unconcerned; they did not help the poor and needy. 50 They were haughty and did detestable things before me.
What is described as detestable in Lev 18 & 20, that a man lie with another man as with a woman.
It appears you missed
Gen 19 "They called to Lot, “Where are the men who came to you tonight? Bring them out to us so that we can have sex with them.” 6 Lot went outside to meet them and shut the door behind him 7 and said, “No, my friends. Don’t do this wicked thing.
and
Lev 18 "22 “‘Do not lie with a man as one lies with a woman; that is detestable. "
Lev 18 "do not follow any of the detestable customs "
and
1 Cor 6 "9 Do you not know that the wicked will not inherit the kingdom of God? Do not be deceived: Neither the sexually immoral nor idolaters nor adulterers nor male prostitutes nor homosexual offenders 10 nor thieves nor the greedy nor drunkards nor slanderers nor swindlers will inherit the kingdom of God. "
and
1 Cor 7 "2 But since there is so much immorality, each man should have his own wife, and each woman her own husband"
and
Romans 1 "26 Because of this, God gave them over to shameful lusts. Even their women exchanged natural relations for unnatural ones. 27 In the same way the men also abandoned natural relations with women and were inflamed with lust for one another. Men committed indecent acts with other men, and received in themselves the due penalty for their perversion. "
I am not prepeared to listen to your endless disbelief of the scriptures.
If you have any scriptures that say a man married a man, or that a decon should be married to but one male partner, or the bride and bride, or that a man shall leave his father and father and be united with his husband, then provide it, otherwise please stop trolling your attacks on the Christian church's position as though it isnt.
So... who wants to tell him that's what a bisexual is?
Honestly, that statement to me gives me a bit more insight into Phinehas' incessant need to dodge the issue and attack gays. Perhaps by bashing gays, it allows one to surpress their own attractions to members of the same sex and pretend they don't exist.
I don't Phinehas will actually agree, but it would be nice to know why someone is so adamantly opposed to gays to the point of basically making God out to hate their entire existence, and yet has those same attractions themselves.
This is a good warning to the Christian church, some people will not put up with sound doctrine. The scriptures that all the major mainstream Christian Churches hold to has been shown on this thread. The scriptures and the statements from the churches affirm marriage is man and woman in faithful union and same sex relations are error. So there is no such thing as the 'same sex marriage' you are thinking of.
OK, essentially you are saying that the mainstream Christian Church is not accepting of homosexuality, and especially does not condone same-sex marriage.
Secondly, you have claimed that any Christian Churches that do either accept homosexuality or are willing to perform same-sex marriages are not part of the mainstream Christian Church.
So if the proposed legislation would permit mainstream Christian Churches to continue to refuse to perform same-sex marriages (which it would), but said legislation would allow the performance of same-sex marriages in non-mainstream Christian Churches, which you claim are not "true" Christian Churches, then what is your problem? If the only people performing same-sex marriages are not part of the mainstream Christian Church, then how is the proposed legislation impacting mainstream Christian Churches?
__________________ "I'd take the awe of understanding over the awe of ignorance any day." - Douglas Adams
"Isn't it enough to see that a garden is beautiful without having to believe that there are fairies at the bottom of it too?" - Douglas Adams
"Skaloopdidit" - Keeping Skaloop as the first cause until science can rule him out. "I'd be a theist if it weren't for God." - Me
Its God’s word and so not faulty for those who believe and have faith in God.
God's word doesn't provide a definition of homosexuality. The definition of homosexuality used by the author of the article you linked to, is a faulty definition, regardless of belief and faith in God or otherwise.
Homosexuality by definition is same sex attraction and acts...
Homosexuality, by definition, is same-sex attraction. Not "acts".
...so the Biblical prohibitions that describe acts of men with men instead of women are homosexual.
No, they're "acts of men with men instead of women." "Homosexual" describes people, not "acts".
it what way wouldn’t it?
In the way that we know that the rape of women is wrong anyway, regardless of whether the crime of the men of Sodom was simply rape, or the rape of men.
If you don’t call majority mainstream Christian churches mainstream Christianity then your real issue is with Christianity not homosexuality.
No, I have no issue with either Christianity or homosexuality.
(If I had an issue with Christianity, why would I be a Christian?)
Sadly you haven’t given any indication that you can recognise mainstream Christianity.
Then you haven't been paying much attention. I recognise mainstream Christianity very well. Unlike you, I recognise that mainstream Christianity is a very diverse group of people and churches, with room of a variety of opinions on a wide range of subjects (with obvious exception such as the divinity of Christ, the sinful nature of mankind, the trinity, and other issues covered in the Nicene Creed.
David.
__________________ David Brider
"...God demonstrates his own love for us in this: While we were still sinners, Christ died for us." (Romans 5:8)
Trying to follow Christ daily.
With heads uncovered swear we all
To bear it onward till we fall;
Come dungeons dark or gallows grim,
This song shall be our parting hymn.
So raise the scarlet standard high.
Beneath its folds we'll live and die,
Though cowards flinch and traitors sneer,
We'll keep the red flag flying here.
Honestly, that statement to me gives me a bit more insight into Phinehas' incessant need to dodge the issue and attack gays. Perhaps by bashing gays, it allows one to surpress their own attractions to members of the same sex and pretend they don't exist.
Careful, I’ve been to civil partnerships of gay friends, what are you calling ‘gay bashing’ again? If the view that same sex relationships are error, then good, it’s a perversion.
I don't Phinehas will actually agree, but it would be nice to know why someone is so adamantly opposed to gays to the point of basically making God out to hate their entire existence, and yet has those same attractions themselves.
God does hate same sex relationships, His word says so, all we have is a group of posters here who don’t believe God’s word and pretend they do.
OK, essentially you are saying that the mainstream Christian Church is not accepting of homosexuality, and especially does not condone same-sex marriage.
Ok so you are saying despite the evidence you don’t accept it. Why not?
Secondly, you have claimed that any Christian Churches that do either accept homosexuality or are willing to perform same-sex marriages are not part of the mainstream Christian Church.
In what way could they be if they depart from the faith to such an extent? Are non-Christians Christians in your view?
So if the proposed legislation would permit mainstream Christian Churches to continue to refuse to perform same-sex marriages (which it would), but said legislation would allow the performance of same-sex marriages in non-mainstream Christian Churches, which you claim are not "true" Christian Churches, then what is your problem? If the only people performing same-sex marriages are not part of the mainstream Christian Church, then how is the proposed legislation impacting mainstream Christian Churches?
No, you didn’t understand the point made, there are no Christian churches which would bless what God detests.
God's word doesn't provide a definition of homosexuality. The definition of homosexuality used by the author of the article you linked to, is a faulty definition, regardless of belief and faith in God or otherwise.
Then you clearly don’t understand what you are talking about. For example men abandoning natural relations with women and committing indecent acts with other men is homosexual by definition rather than heterosexual. Careful if we don’t even share language we wont eb able to communicate.
Homosexuality, by definition, is same-sex attraction. Not "acts".
Not according to the definitions Homosexuality - Wikipedia, the free encyclopedia . You don’t know what you are talking about. Homosexuality by definition is same sex attraction and acts... God detests same sex sexual relations.
In the way that we know that the rape of women is wrong anyway, regardless of whether the crime of the men of Sodom was simply rape, or the rape of men.
Then you clearly haven’t understood Genesis 19 as I told you. It is therefore not about rape but the desire to same sex acts with men. In your attempt to distort the word of God you have made a rod for your back. Proverbs 10:13 “Wisdom is found on the lips of the discerning, but a rod is for the back of one who has no sense. “
No, I have no issue with either Christianity or homosexuality.
I don’t think so, your issue is with Christianity and the word of God, you don’t believe the evidence. I am a Christian and my views on this issue are in line with the Christian churches and the Biblical testimony of God and I have posted the links which show your views are not.
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