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  #1  
Unread 3rd January 2011, 10:41 AM
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Weeping and Gnashing of Teeth

One of the phrases Jesus uses to describe what it's like to be excluded from the Kingdom of God is that of 'weeping and gnashing of teeth'.

Matt 8:12 but the sons of the kingdom will be thrown out into the outer darkness, where there will be weeping and gnashing of teeth.”

13:42 They will throw them into the fiery furnace, where there will be weeping and gnashing of teeth.

13:50 and throw them into the fiery furnace, where there will be weeping and gnashing of teeth.

22:13 Then the king said to his attendants, ‘Tie him up hand and foot and throw him into the outer darkness, where there will be weeping and gnashing of teeth!’

24:51 and will cut him in two, and assign him a place with the hypocrites, where there will be weeping and gnashing of teeth.

25:30 And throw that worthless slave into the outer darkness, where there will be weeping and gnashing of teeth.’

Luke 13:28 There will be weeping and gnashing of teeth when you see Abraham, Isaac, Jacob, and all the prophets in the kingdom of God but you yourselves thrown out.
Many people take the weeping and gnashing of teeth to be the experience of physical pain in the form of torment by fire for eternity. I want to suggest that there is a more viable alternative for understanding this phrase 'weeping and gnashing of teeth'. I would suggest that the gnasing of teeth is an idiom for raging hatred and opposition, not of someone experiencing physical pain. This is seen in several other places throughout the bible.

For example, the opponents of Stephen (Acts 7:54) "gnash their teeth" at Stephen. This isn't because Stephen's opponents are in pain themselves, in fact, they are inflicting pain on Stephen (they kill him). Their gnashing of their teeth is a form of expressing their rage and hatred toward Stephen.

In Psalm 35:16 the opponents of the Psalmist are are mocking him and his stumbling by gnashing their teeth at him. Their teeth gnashing is one of opposition and mockery, not of the opponents being in physical pain.

In Psalm 37:12, it's the wicked who inhabit the land that are gnashing their teeth. It's not because they are in pain, it's because of staunch and violent opposition toward the Psamist and the people he represents.

In Job 16:9, Job accusing God of "gnashing His teeth" toward Job. But it's not because Job thinks God is in physical pain, it's because Job thinks God is violently opposing him.

In Psalm 112:10, it's not people in physical pain who are gnashing their teeth. It's people who are violently opposing God by not keeping His commands and opposing God's honoring of the needy and the vindication and honor of God's name.

In Lamentations 2:16, it's the people who sack Jerusalem who gnash their teeth and the people they conquered. It's not because they are in pain, but because of hatred and violent opposition toward their enemies.


I suggest that the only way to understand the "gnashin of teeth" in Jesus' descriptions is to understand it as hatred and opposition (even violent opposition) toward God. The people who are excluded from the Kingdom of God do not seem to be in physical pain in the form of eternal hellfire, they seem to be experiencing sorrow and shame (hence the weeping) yet they still oppose and even hate God (hence the gnashing of teeth).

Further implications of this might be that those who are not in the Kingdom of God never cease to oppose Him even if they know they are wrong. Some people naturally think that upon entering 'hell' would want to repent, but maybe that's just not the case. Maybe part of being in hell is eternal opposition toward God. It's also important to note that Jesus' descriptions of exclusion from the Kingdom of God (the people who are weeping and gnashing their teeth) doesn't seem to me to necessitate that someone has to be physically dead (brain dead/stopping of the heart) in order to be weeping and gnashing their teeth, much less does it seem to me to necessitate that they be in some sort of eternal hellfire as envisioned by Dante. It simply indicates that whether in this life or in some eternal state, those who are not in God's Kingdom experience shame, sorrow and are in opposition and even hatred toward God.

What do you think?
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  #2  
Unread 3rd January 2011, 02:27 PM
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Originally Posted by Yekcidmij
What do you think?
I think you're exactly right. The damned have nothing but contempt and hatred for God and the Bible says that this is expressed in the wailing and gnashing of teeth.

It isn't an expression of grief, but of rage and anger and hatred.
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Unread 3rd January 2011, 09:41 PM
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Sounds pretty cool. Something else I just thought about:

You could also take the "weeping" part, and say:
It's said that heaven will have no tears, in revelation and somewere else (He'll wipe away all our tears). I think it says in other places how there will be no more tears, or instead of tears there will be laughter/joy.

So, Hell equals "weeping and gnashing of teeth". Heaven consists of no weeping. Pretty cool, huh?
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Unread 4th January 2011, 12:50 AM
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Originally Posted by Yekcidmij View Post
One of the phrases Jesus uses to describe what it's like to be excluded from the Kingdom of God is that of 'weeping and gnashing of teeth'.



Many people take the weeping and gnashing of teeth to be the experience of physical pain in the form of torment by fire for eternity. I want to suggest that there is a more viable alternative for understanding this phrase 'weeping and gnashing of teeth'. I would suggest that the gnasing of teeth is an idiom for raging hatred and opposition, not of someone experiencing physical pain. This is seen in several other places throughout the bible.

For example, the opponents of Stephen (Acts 7:54) "gnash their teeth" at Stephen. This isn't because Stephen's opponents are in pain themselves, in fact, they are inflicting pain on Stephen (they kill him). Their gnashing of their teeth is a form of expressing their rage and hatred toward Stephen.

In Psalm 35:16 the opponents of the Psalmist are are mocking him and his stumbling by gnashing their teeth at him. Their teeth gnashing is one of opposition and mockery, not of the opponents being in physical pain.

In Psalm 37:12, it's the wicked who inhabit the land that are gnashing their teeth. It's not because they are in pain, it's because of staunch and violent opposition toward the Psamist and the people he represents.

In Job 16:9, Job accusing God of "gnashing His teeth" toward Job. But it's not because Job thinks God is in physical pain, it's because Job thinks God is violently opposing him.

In Psalm 112:10, it's not people in physical pain who are gnashing their teeth. It's people who are violently opposing God by not keeping His commands and opposing God's honoring of the needy and the vindication and honor of God's name.

In Lamentations 2:16, it's the people who sack Jerusalem who gnash their teeth and the people they conquered. It's not because they are in pain, but because of hatred and violent opposition toward their enemies.


I suggest that the only way to understand the "gnashin of teeth" in Jesus' descriptions is to understand it as hatred and opposition (even violent opposition) toward God. The people who are excluded from the Kingdom of God do not seem to be in physical pain in the form of eternal hellfire, they seem to be experiencing sorrow and shame (hence the weeping) yet they still oppose and even hate God (hence the gnashing of teeth).

Further implications of this might be that those who are not in the Kingdom of God never cease to oppose Him even if they know they are wrong. Some people naturally think that upon entering 'hell' would want to repent, but maybe that's just not the case. Maybe part of being in hell is eternal opposition toward God. It's also important to note that Jesus' descriptions of exclusion from the Kingdom of God (the people who are weeping and gnashing their teeth) doesn't seem to me to necessitate that someone has to be physically dead (brain dead/stopping of the heart) in order to be weeping and gnashing their teeth, much less does it seem to me to necessitate that they be in some sort of eternal hellfire as envisioned by Dante. It simply indicates that whether in this life or in some eternal state, those who are not in God's Kingdom experience shame, sorrow and are in opposition and even hatred toward God.

What do you think?
i think your point is pointless weeping and gnashing of teeth is the same as experiencing utter pain
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  #5  
Unread 4th January 2011, 12:54 AM
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Originally Posted by brokensoul80 View Post
i think your point is pointless weeping and gnashing of teeth is the same as experiencing utter pain

In other words, you aren't going to address what I posted. Thanks.
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Unread 4th January 2011, 01:43 AM
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Originally Posted by Yekcidmij View Post
One of the phrases Jesus uses to describe what it's like to be excluded from the Kingdom of God is that of 'weeping and gnashing of teeth'.



Many people take the weeping and gnashing of teeth to be the experience of physical pain in the form of torment by fire for eternity. I want to suggest that there is a more viable alternative for understanding this phrase 'weeping and gnashing of teeth'. I would suggest that the gnasing of teeth is an idiom for raging hatred and opposition, not of someone experiencing physical pain. This is seen in several other places throughout the bible.

For example, the opponents of Stephen (Acts 7:54) "gnash their teeth" at Stephen. This isn't because Stephen's opponents are in pain themselves, in fact, they are inflicting pain on Stephen (they kill him). Their gnashing of their teeth is a form of expressing their rage and hatred toward Stephen.

In Psalm 35:16 the opponents of the Psalmist are are mocking him and his stumbling by gnashing their teeth at him. Their teeth gnashing is one of opposition and mockery, not of the opponents being in physical pain.

In Psalm 37:12, it's the wicked who inhabit the land that are gnashing their teeth. It's not because they are in pain, it's because of staunch and violent opposition toward the Psamist and the people he represents.

In Job 16:9, Job accusing God of "gnashing His teeth" toward Job. But it's not because Job thinks God is in physical pain, it's because Job thinks God is violently opposing him.

In Psalm 112:10, it's not people in physical pain who are gnashing their teeth. It's people who are violently opposing God by not keeping His commands and opposing God's honoring of the needy and the vindication and honor of God's name.

In Lamentations 2:16, it's the people who sack Jerusalem who gnash their teeth and the people they conquered. It's not because they are in pain, but because of hatred and violent opposition toward their enemies.


I suggest that the only way to understand the "gnashin of teeth" in Jesus' descriptions is to understand it as hatred and opposition (even violent opposition) toward God. The people who are excluded from the Kingdom of God do not seem to be in physical pain in the form of eternal hellfire, they seem to be experiencing sorrow and shame (hence the weeping) yet they still oppose and even hate God (hence the gnashing of teeth).

Further implications of this might be that those who are not in the Kingdom of God never cease to oppose Him even if they know they are wrong. Some people naturally think that upon entering 'hell' would want to repent, but maybe that's just not the case. Maybe part of being in hell is eternal opposition toward God. It's also important to note that Jesus' descriptions of exclusion from the Kingdom of God (the people who are weeping and gnashing their teeth) doesn't seem to me to necessitate that someone has to be physically dead (brain dead/stopping of the heart) in order to be weeping and gnashing their teeth, much less does it seem to me to necessitate that they be in some sort of eternal hellfire as envisioned by Dante. It simply indicates that whether in this life or in some eternal state, those who are not in God's Kingdom experience shame, sorrow and are in opposition and even hatred toward God.

What do you think?
## I'm impressed. Thanks for something to think about
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  #7  
Unread 4th January 2011, 06:12 AM
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Agree that gnashing works for extreme hate, but weeping seems to express pain or at least regret. Either way I think it is a bit narrow to restrict the whole expression to either just pain or just hatred. I think it would be both, which makes it difficult in my mind to use this as a basis for saying eternal torment is a myth.
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Unread 4th January 2011, 07:34 PM
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Originally Posted by Yekcidmij View Post
One of the phrases Jesus uses to describe what it's like to be excluded from the Kingdom of God is that of 'weeping and gnashing of teeth'.



Many people take the weeping and gnashing of teeth to be the experience of physical pain in the form of torment by fire for eternity. I want to suggest that there is a more viable alternative for understanding this phrase 'weeping and gnashing of teeth'. I would suggest that the gnasing of teeth is an idiom for raging hatred and opposition, not of someone experiencing physical pain. This is seen in several other places throughout the bible.

For example, the opponents of Stephen (Acts 7:54) "gnash their teeth" at Stephen. This isn't because Stephen's opponents are in pain themselves, in fact, they are inflicting pain on Stephen (they kill him). Their gnashing of their teeth is a form of expressing their rage and hatred toward Stephen.

In Psalm 35:16 the opponents of the Psalmist are are mocking him and his stumbling by gnashing their teeth at him. Their teeth gnashing is one of opposition and mockery, not of the opponents being in physical pain.

In Psalm 37:12, it's the wicked who inhabit the land that are gnashing their teeth. It's not because they are in pain, it's because of staunch and violent opposition toward the Psamist and the people he represents.

In Job 16:9, Job accusing God of "gnashing His teeth" toward Job. But it's not because Job thinks God is in physical pain, it's because Job thinks God is violently opposing him.

In Psalm 112:10, it's not people in physical pain who are gnashing their teeth. It's people who are violently opposing God by not keeping His commands and opposing God's honoring of the needy and the vindication and honor of God's name.

In Lamentations 2:16, it's the people who sack Jerusalem who gnash their teeth and the people they conquered. It's not because they are in pain, but because of hatred and violent opposition toward their enemies.


I suggest that the only way to understand the "gnashin of teeth" in Jesus' descriptions is to understand it as hatred and opposition (even violent opposition) toward God. The people who are excluded from the Kingdom of God do not seem to be in physical pain in the form of eternal hellfire, they seem to be experiencing sorrow and shame (hence the weeping) yet they still oppose and even hate God (hence the gnashing of teeth).

Further implications of this might be that those who are not in the Kingdom of God never cease to oppose Him even if they know they are wrong. Some people naturally think that upon entering 'hell' would want to repent, but maybe that's just not the case. Maybe part of being in hell is eternal opposition toward God. It's also important to note that Jesus' descriptions of exclusion from the Kingdom of God (the people who are weeping and gnashing their teeth) doesn't seem to me to necessitate that someone has to be physically dead (brain dead/stopping of the heart) in order to be weeping and gnashing their teeth, much less does it seem to me to necessitate that they be in some sort of eternal hellfire as envisioned by Dante. It simply indicates that whether in this life or in some eternal state, those who are not in God's Kingdom experience shame, sorrow and are in opposition and even hatred toward God.

What do you think?
I think you did well.
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Unread 4th January 2011, 07:43 PM
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Originally Posted by beforHim View Post

So, Hell equals "weeping and gnashing of teeth". Heaven consists of no weeping. Pretty cool, huh?
I thought hell was equated with death not eternal life. How do dead people "feel" pain? For example, if hell consists of people being tortured forever how do they gain access to the tree of life?
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"All truth passes through three stages. First, it is ridiculed, second it is violently opposed, and third, it is accepted as self-evident." - Arthur Schopenhauer, Philosopher, 1788-1860

"No science is equal to the science that reveals the character of God." - Ellen G. White, Author

"Christ was treated as we deserve, that we might be treated as He deserves. He was condemned for our sins, in which He had no share, that we might be justified by His righteousness, in which we had no share. He suffered the death which was ours, that we might receive the life which was His." - Ellen G. White, Desire of Ages, page 25


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Sometimes the best way to learn about a being is to look at the supreme beings exact opposite archrival. I think you have to look at the Demonic aspect of it. The opposite of Holy Angels would be the fallen angels, this is basically what you are going to deal with if you are in Hell. It is hard to explain what hell really is, but I do know this. The thought of it probably doesn't hold true to what it really is. I think Hell is far worse then anyone can imagine. Basically a holding cell for negative energy and evil.

Fire, gnashing of teeth and weeping. Pain and suffering, most likely amusement for Satans Squad. Azazel is another nasty force here. Take the polar opposite of Jesus and you will get an idea of what hell is.

However I still believe God has power over it of course. Is it really an "eternity" or basically a "prison sentence" depending on how disrespecting you were to God throughout your judgment time...I doubt it because wouldn't that mean Heaven would have a "time of stay" as well??? Who knows how the system works.
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