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Christownsme · #41 10th April 2011, 01:05 AM

Originally Posted by cowboysfan1970

Lust is something different than what you've described. Lust isn't desire or arousal. Lust is someone's intent. If a man sees a woman that he is attracted to and then starts thinking things like "I bet if I did this, this, or this, I could hook up with her," he's crossed the line into lust even if he never acts on those thoughts. Lust is wanting to be with someone just to hook up, have your fun, and then dumping them. Or even thinking about doing that. Lust has no commitment or regard for the other person. Simple attraction or desire isn't lust.

I agree. Lust is 'a look and action in process'. Appreciating the beauty of nature and the beauty of a desirable woman are the same, and neither is wrong.. Job, after he went through his torturous time, was blessed with three of the fairest looking daughters in all the land:

Job 42:15
In all the land no women were found so fair as Job's daughters; NASB

So evidently men looked at Job's daughters along with other women and "found" none "so fair as Job's daughters." God didn't say men committed adultery doing this.

I think when Jesus speaks of adultery as "looking at a woman with lust in your heart," he's not talking about appreciating the beauty, but with intentions of using that beauty to gain sexual satisfaction [outside a marriage we're talking].

That's hard for guys, because this type of appreciation to the glory of God often leads to deluded thinking that sex may somehow be possible, and guys just can't leave it alone at the level of appreciation. Taking what is not theirs, they claim stake on the beauty of a woman to satisfy their lusts.

I think it's all a part of Satan's plan to get people to marry later on in life because of college and career first, and this frustrates both guys and girls sexually, and Satan is fully aware of what he's doing. I think society's demands makes it hard to marry young, and not be preoccupied with adultery.

Thank God for forgiveness and lessons learned so that adultery doesn't have to master the eyes.

In response to the original question, as much as I am weak in the flesh and enjoy gazing too much on women in bathing suits (the bathing suits show off the figure, thighs, and breast, which is much more sexually appealing than fully clothed in loose garments), I know that if I looked at a sister in the faith this way, she wouldn't be happy with me and I would feel convicted by the Holy Spirit. We need to take it for what it is: the bathing suit is a man-made item from the world. And therefore will create worldly consequences to those who fall for the bait. Appreciation can turn into lust so quickly because of sexually frustrated men and women. So, I'd say wear it with discretion. If you're married and alone, do whatever you want with the bathing suit. If you're with a bunch of adults who you know are not going to lust, wear it with some modesty. If you're with the world, and with weak brothers, wear it very modestly.

steadfastchristian · #42 10th April 2011, 07:53 PM

"You have heard that it was said, 'Do not commit adultery.' But I tell you that anyone who looks at a woman lustfully has already committed adultery with her in his heart." (Matthew 5:27,28,32)

"I also want the women to dress modestly, with decency and propriety..." (1 timothy 2:9 NIV)

"Do you not know that your body is a temple of the Holy Spirit, who is in you, whom you have received from God? You are not your own..." (1 Corinthians 6:19 NIV)

It is clear that a woman or a man should dress modestly. Because of our free will, we can dress any way we want, however, there are consequences to our actions. If we cause another to sin by revealing our body parts, we will be just as guilty of the sin. If we are dressed modestly and another lusts after us, there is obviously no sin on our part.

Scripture tells us not to be a stumbling block to others and it would be wise to follow this advice. It's all about how committed we are to God.

Just because everyone else including some Christians are doing it doesn't make it right.

Nurbz · #43 10th April 2011, 08:20 PM

Originally Posted by Just4Jesus

If a woman wears something that could cause a man to stumble as in "lusting" after her, we as christians shouldn't do it. It's just being respectful. Same goes for a man not causing a woman to stumble.

It's cultural influence that determines how much skin is acceptable. Back in the 19th century and early 20th century when women were ment to be covered from the neck down, men would drool over a woman's bare ankles if they happen to see them below the hem of a dress! Until the 60's, a woman's midsection being seen outside the home was terribly offensive. In some tribal cultures, people are mostly or completely nude, including the children and it's not seen as sexual to them at all.

Forcing a dress code forces a culture to view the body differently. Muslim cultures show this cycle by making women cover all but their eyes (and in some places the eyes too!), this means seeing ANY part of a woman uncovored drives men crazy, even if it is clothed below the burkha, so they have to keep their repression under control by opressing women.

People have to remember that there is natural and sexual displays. A person can be nude without the nudity being sexual. We find the mere thought of nudity to be sexual because we place a taboo on it. Remember other cultures have entire naturist communities, and I've taken life drawing classes with nude models and believe me, seeing a lumpy naked 40 year old posing isn't sexual in the least.

So obviously the problem is not with the body, it is what kind of shame or taboo we attach to it; we create our own stumbling blocks where there are none

FreeInChrist88 · #44 10th April 2011, 10:55 PM

Originally Posted by WannaWitness

I found a Website not too long back which shows a wide variety of swimwear for those who enjoy some good fun in the sun as much as the next person, but are concerned about modesty. And they aren't ugly like some that I've seen, and have such lovely colors and patterns that can be becoming in themselves.

Simply Modest Swimwear

Here are some pictures from the old version of this Website for some examples:

Home - Simply Modest

Testimonials - Simply Modest

Originally Posted by CoconutPrincess

Clothing is meant to covering up, not bringing attention to areas of our body we want others to see.

Men are visual and exposing certain areas of our body can cause our Christian brothers to sin in their heart.

Certain parts of our bodies are meant for our husband only And that makes it special doesn't it? Because it is a part of the body reseved only for him.

Originally Posted by Steelerbred33

Based on Scripture (to be modest), women shouldn't wear bikinis.

The one thing I admire about Islam is their consistency in applying modesty ideals in all situations.

Many Christian women may wear one thing at church and a skimpy bikini at the beach. Very inconsistent, don't you think?

I'm not trying to pick on any one here, but these are examples of how we try to solve a problem by "covering" it up.

Jesus told us in Matthew 15:19 where evil comes from; it comes from out of our hearts! The real answer for lust is not to require women to adequately cover their bodies (whatever that means). The real is answer is let God change our hearts and renew our our minds (Romans 12:2). The answer is to be dead to sin and alive to God in Christ Jesus (Romans 6:11).

A man can lust after a woman regardless of how much of her body is covered by clothing. That lust comes from his heart. So how much clothing is really required before a man will cease lusting?

It's also possible for a man to break the connection between what he sees and his tendency to lust. Everyone thinks that being visually stimulated is hard-wired in every man. If that were the case, then how do medical people deal with seeing the human body? (Or are all males in the medical field in it for some kind of perverted sexual reason as some ignorant people think?)

How many times do we as Christians have to keep going around the same tree only to wind up in the same spot? When will we grow up and be responsible for our own thoughts and actions? When will we stop blaming how someone else is dressed (or not dressed) and deal with our own weaknesses?

RandoMWoN · #45 11th April 2011, 12:43 AM

Originally Posted by FreeInChrist88

I'm not trying to pick on any one here, but these are examples of how we try to solve a problem by "covering" it up.

Jesus told us in Matthew 15:19 where evil comes from; it comes from out of our hearts! The real answer for lust is not to require women to adequately cover their bodies (whatever that means). The real is answer is let God change our hearts and renew our our minds (Romans 12:2). The answer is to be dead to sin and alive to God in Christ Jesus (Romans 6:11).

A man can lust after a woman regardless of how much of her body is covered by clothing. That lust comes from his heart. So how much clothing is really required before a man will cease lusting?

This. We were naked when God made us in Genesis. We had no evil or sins. When we ate from the tree, we became ashamed and aware and evil entered the world. Being naked in itself is not bad. It is from our intentions and evil thoughts that cause sin.

I suppose it's up to the woman, if in fact her heart is in the right place about it. I know for one I'm going to sin no matter what. It is what I do after I sin that matters.

WannaWitness · #46 11th April 2011, 11:42 AM

Originally Posted by FreeInChrist88

I'm not trying to pick on any one here, but these are examples of how we try to solve a problem by "covering" it up.

Jesus told us in Matthew 15:19 where evil comes from; it comes from out of our hearts! The real answer for lust is not to require women to adequately cover their bodies (whatever that means). The real is answer is let God change our hearts and renew our our minds (Romans 12:2). The answer is to be dead to sin and alive to God in Christ Jesus (Romans 6:11).

A man can lust after a woman regardless of how much of her body is covered by clothing. That lust comes from his heart. So how much clothing is really required before a man will cease lusting?

It's also possible for a man to break the connection between what he sees and his tendency to lust. Everyone thinks that being visually stimulated is hard-wired in every man. If that were the case, then how do medical people deal with seeing the human body? (Or are all males in the medical field in it for some kind of perverted sexual reason as some ignorant people think?)

How many times do we as Christians have to keep going around the same tree only to wind up in the same spot? When will we grow up and be responsible for our own thoughts and actions? When will we stop blaming how someone else is dressed (or not dressed) and deal with our own weaknesses?

Of course, I see your point, and I completely agree with you that dressing modestly doesn't solve the continuing problem of the many people running around with filthy and downright warped minds. I have even tried to point that out many times. All I was doing was simply posting a few links for those who like to try their best to dress decently for any situation, and that includes summer wear. I, myself, have my own convictions, and can't bring myself to wear a standard swimsuit (and I haven't for quite a number of years), therefore, I choose not to do it. I am not out to act "holier-than-thou" and condemn those who don't share my conviction. I'm just sharing my own in the hopes of benefiting those who are honestly concerned about modesty.

Granted, I believe it can be carried too far. I don't think one has to dress plain, ugly, and frumpy to be modest, and I believe there are those out there who think of it as more than a conviction, actually believing that's what makes them Godly. I don't go along with that, but I definitely believe the whole modesty issue shouldn't be laid aside completely. That's why I like to strike up a happy medium, and I feel my clothing choices, as a whole, are reasonable. For example, I could put on something as simple as a T-shirt and a pair of somewhat loose-fitting bib overalls (comfortable, practical, and my favorite thing to wear, by the way). Casual observers would view me in a variety of ways, both negatively and positively. Now I believe, for the most part, the average person will look, and not even bat an eye. And some will view me as dowdy and nerdy. Some will think "earthy". Some, with the "no-pants-on-women-whatsoever" mindset would, of course, suggest that I should wear a skirt (or the dress equivalent of overalls, a jumper) in order to "truly" be modest. Everyone is going to think differently. Therefore, it is only natural that Christians, alone, will have differing convictions on this issue. Romans 14 speaks of disputes over "doubtful things", and this issue could very well be one of them.

I hope this helps you better understand what my intentions are.

God bless.

ghendricks63 · #47 11th April 2011, 12:48 PM

It is sad that nearly everyone commenting just accepts the notion that to have sexual thoughts when seeing someone (modest or immodest) is to lust after them. It simply is not lusting to appreciate the human form (God designed us to very pleased with each other's form), even if it involves sexual thoughts.

Scriptural lust requires coveteousness and a desire or willingness to take that which one is not entitled to. Normal sexual thoughts...even a longing to one day satisy these God given cravings...is not lusting. David committed adultery with Bathsheba by taking what he was not entitled to. He did not commit adultery by longing for and even taking the other women that were not forbidden to him. In fact, God told him He would have given him even more had he desired it. (Look it up)

The church is sex crazed in a negative way and it is almost a hysteria to many. God gave us sex and sexual feelings and desires. Why does everyone so insist on giving Satan the credit for the way God made us?

ghendricks63 · #48 11th April 2011, 01:28 PM

Originally Posted by Virgil Buschy

Whoa there. I think you are walking on very shakey spiritual ground. Everything in life starts from a seed and grows into something bigger. A thought is no different. Sexual thoughts are the weeds of the mind. God is weed killer

And since looking at or thinking about food can lead to gluttony we must purge all thoughts of it from our mind. And since looking at or thinking about wine can lead to drunkenness, we must also purge all thought of it from our minds. I mean this is the natural progression of your line of thought.

Every good thing can become sinful when used in a way that violates the law of love. But that does not make them sinful in and of themselves.

ghendricks63 · #49 11th April 2011, 01:46 PM

Originally Posted by Virgil Buschy

If you let go and let go and let God your mind will become free of worldy thoughts of the flesh. I'm afraid you may be an overweight, drunken, porn freak looking to God to ease your guilt.

Wow...the slams and character asassinations sure do run rampant here don't they? You sir are an offensive individual.

I am not overweight, I am not a drunk, I am not a porn freak, and Jesus took care of my guilt. What I am is a born again Christian who has been married for 28 years, been a bible teacher my entire adult life, pastored a church, and live every day in service to my Lord.

Save your insults and repugnant behavior for someone else.

ghendricks63 · #50 11th April 2011, 02:03 PM

Originally Posted by Virgil Buschy

I'm sorry if I offended you. I was just trying to find out who I was dealing with. I may of over exaggerated but it was in search of a point. You stated Jesus took care of your guilt, so I was right. You have used Jesus as an umbrella to shield yourself from the ego of the flesh. It sounds as if maybe you are faithful for the wrong reasons.

Again I mean no offense, just trying to help you see potential pitfuls in your view of the world. I am just trying to help out of love and sometimes that requires hard seaching words.

So you are saying that to accept the grace of the cross is to use "Jesus as an umbrella to shield" myself "from the ego of the flesh"? Are you for real?? No, you most certainly are NOT right. And yes you did offend me and you still do. Now you ascribe my celebration of the work of Christ in my life to some sort of self serving ego based pleasure trip. Faithful for the wrong reasons? How dare you!!!

Love does not judge a man without even the slightest effort to understand him so I fail to see how it is truly your motive here.

If you are not capable of having a respectful dialogue then please do not address me at all.