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  #1  
Unread 22nd December 2010, 11:43 PM
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God and his unknowable ways

I often hear that God is all powerful and perfect, but shouldn't creation be perfect as well? That is a logical contradiction. How could an all perfect God made an imperfect world?

Last edited by Edial; 2nd April 2011 at 10:39 PM. Reason: Flamey title (Admin edit)
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  #2  
Unread 22nd December 2010, 11:57 PM
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He made a perfect world, man messed it up. Not God.
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Unread 23rd December 2010, 12:07 AM
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Originally Posted by puregrl View Post
He made a perfect world, man messed it up. Not God.
Life on going process entails too much error. i.e, mutation/chance, etc... From this observation it seems that random chance and processes play a big role in life rather than a divine being.
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Unread 23rd December 2010, 01:06 AM
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Originally Posted by superman2010 View Post
I often hear that God is all powerful and perfect, but shouldn't creation be perfect as well? That is a logical contradiction. How could an all perfect God made an imperfect world?
Perfect is a relative term, not an absolute term. Saying something is perfect requires some sort of context, just like saying something is tall? How tall is tall? It depends. For a professional basketball player, 6 feet is pretty short, but compared to the average woman 6 feet is tall. Being tall depends on a comparison, it is not an absolute attribute.

Likewise, perfect depends on a comparison, a comparison between something and it's intended purpose. What is the perfect car? Well, for a college student it might be a cheap compact car with high gas mileage and low insurance costs to save money, but for a business corporation it might be an expensive luxury car to impress clients. It all depends on the purpose the car is intended to fulfill.

Saying the world is perfect simply means that the world completely fulfills the purposes for which created it to fulfill, and it does. Just because you don't like certain things about the world doesn't mean the world doesn't fulfill the purposes God created it to fulfill. God did not create this world to be a paradise, he created it as a place for humans to make a choice to either accept him or reject him. Paradise comes later on, in Heaven, for those who trust God.
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Unread 23rd December 2010, 02:27 AM
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When I talk about perfect, I'm not talking about the different degrees of perfection. We look at the world and we know it's not perfect.
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Unread 23rd December 2010, 02:29 AM
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Originally Posted by superman2010 View Post
I often hear that God is all powerful and perfect, but shouldn't creation be perfect as well? That is a logical contradiction. How could an all perfect God made an imperfect world?
What makes you think this world is not perfect?

I guess what I hearing from you is that the world should conform to your image of 'perfection'. And as the world does not live up to that image therefore there is some problem.

For some reason God did not give us a feather duster ride through life. I don't really know why but there it is. Our challenge is to see God in the mundane things.
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Unread 23rd December 2010, 03:19 AM
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Originally Posted by wayseer View Post
What makes you think this world is not perfect?

I guess what I hearing from you is that the world should conform to your image of 'perfection'. And as the world does not live up to that image therefore there is some problem.

For some reason God did not give us a feather duster ride through life. I don't really know why but there it is. Our challenge is to see God in the mundane things.
Well duh look around you. That should tell you already.
No it's not about conforming to my image. My main argument was why an perfect God made an imperfect world? Shouldn't it conform to His image? How do you as a believer in God reconcile this? So God is not perfect? Shouldn't creation be perfect in every aspect?
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Unread 23rd December 2010, 04:18 AM
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Originally Posted by Verticordious View Post
Perfect is a relative term, not an absolute term. Saying something is perfect requires some sort of context, just like saying something is tall? How tall is tall? It depends. For a professional basketball player, 6 feet is pretty short, but compared to the average woman 6 feet is tall. Being tall depends on a comparison, it is not an absolute attribute.

Likewise, perfect depends on a comparison, a comparison between something and it's intended purpose. What is the perfect car? Well, for a college student it might be a cheap compact car with high gas mileage and low insurance costs to save money, but for a business corporation it might be an expensive luxury car to impress clients. It all depends on the purpose the car is intended to fulfill.

Saying the world is perfect simply means that the world completely fulfills the purposes for which created it to fulfill, and it does. Just because you don't like certain things about the world doesn't mean the world doesn't fulfill the purposes God created it to fulfill. God did not create this world to be a paradise, he created it as a place for humans to make a choice to either accept him or reject him. Paradise comes later on, in Heaven, for those who trust God.
Shouldn't a perfect God create all perfect possible worlds? How come not this one, but rather it have to be the next one?
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Unread 23rd December 2010, 05:23 AM
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Originally Posted by superman2010 View Post
Well duh look around you. That should tell you already.
No it's not about conforming to my image. My main argument was why an perfect God made an imperfect world? Shouldn't it conform to His image? How do you as a believer in God reconcile this? So God is not perfect? Shouldn't creation be perfect in every aspect?
You miss the point.

What is a 'perfect' world? One where everything is nice and rosy?

What you are doing is placing your conditions on what sort of world we should live in. God has other ideas for whatever reason.

If you want to start a discussion of how we might better live in this world that is another question.

But you premise is that because you have been taught God is perfect your assume Creation is therefore perfect. There is little evidence to support that assumption.

Maybe God is more like the army drill sergeant than a popsicle seller on a hot day.
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Unread 23rd December 2010, 08:54 AM
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reply

Superman2010,
Thank you for your question. I want to make a couple of observations:
1)I notice that you have a "Christian" icon beside your name; and yet, you seem to have doubts about the Lord. You have questioned Him as the Creator, as well as speaking of Him as "a divine being".
2)Has anyone ever discussed the depravity of man with you,man's total inability to overcome his sinful nature? In case they have not,here are a couple of verses regarding this aspect:
"As it is written,there is none righteous,no,not one;there is none that understandeth,there is none that seeketh after God. Romans 3:10 & 11
Where did "unrighteousness" (whatever is not right in God's sight) or "sin" come from?
"Wherefore as by one man (Adam) sin entered into the world,and (spiritual and physical)death by sin; and so death passed unto all men,in that all have sinned."Romans 5:12
This is how that looks:
A. God creates planet earth, which He says is "very good". (Genesis 1)
B. Man is created and given the position of caretaker of God's world.
C. Man is tempted and willingly rebels against God.
D. Man's nature is changed. He "falls".
E. The plague of sin encompasses every corner of the planet earth.
F. Everyone (including you) is born with a depraved,sinful nature.
G. The earth is placed under a curse. Even if you see a beautiful sunset, know that it will be soon night and ,unless you live in the wilderness, night brings out the dregs of society, seeking their own pleasure.If you see a rose, know that it will soon wilt. If you hear a beautiful waterfall, know that it is polluted.
What could you expect in a world that God has cursed?
Birth defects, war,famine,disease,innocent people murdered, children raped

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Julian of York
"For Thou art worthy, O Lord, to receive glory and honor and power; for Thou hast created all things,and for Thy pleasure they are and were created."Revelations 4:11
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