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Eschatology - Endtimes & Prophecy Forum The Endtimes & Prophecy Forum for the discussion of future events. No full preterist views. Partial preterists welcomed.

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  #1  
Unread 22nd December 2010, 08:00 AM
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Who is the chief prince of Meshech and Tubal?

WHO IS THE FOLLOWING PASSAGE REFERRING TO?

Ezekiel 38:1-6
The word of the Lord came to me: “Son of man, set your face toward Gog, of the land of Magog, the chief prince of Meshech and Tubal, and prophesy against him and say, Thus says the Lord God: Behold, I am against you, O Gog, chief prince of Meshech and Tubal. And I will turn you about and put hooks into your jaws, and I will bring you out, and all your army, horses and horsemen, all of them clothed in full armor, a great host, all of them with buckler and shield, wielding swords. Persia, Cush, and Put are with them, all of them with shield and helmet; Gomer and all his hordes; Beth-togarmah from the uttermost parts of the north with all his hordes—many peoples are with you.
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  #2  
Unread 22nd December 2010, 11:03 AM
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Chief prince is a term that was also used in Daniel:


12Then said he unto me, Fear not, Daniel: for from the first day that thou didst set thine heart to understand, and to chasten thyself before thy God, thy words were heard, and I am come for thy words.
13But the prince of the kingdom of Persia withstood me one and twenty days: but, lo, Michael, one of the chief princes, came to help me; and I remained there with the kings of Persia.
14Now I am come to make thee understand what shall befall thy people in the latter days: for yet the vision is for many days.
15And when he had spoken such words unto me, I set my face toward the ground, and I became dumb.
16And, behold, one like the similitude of the sons of men touched my lips: then I opened my mouth, and spake, and said unto him that stood before me, O my lord, by the vision my sorrows are turned upon me, and I have retained no strength.
17For how can the servant of this my lord talk with this my lord? for as for me, straightway there remained no strength in me, neither is there breath left in me.
18Then there came again and touched me one like the appearance of a man, and he strengthened me,
19And said, O man greatly beloved, fear not: peace be unto thee, be strong, yea, be strong. And when he had spoken unto me, I was strengthened, and said, Let my lord speak; for thou hast strengthened me.
20Then said he, Knowest thou wherefore I come unto thee? and now will I return to fight with the prince of Persia: and when I am gone forth, lo, the prince of Grecia shall come. 21But I will shew thee that which is noted in the scripture of truth: and there is none that holdeth with me in these things, but Michael your prince.


Gabriel was speaking of angelic beings and the battle that they fight against each other.

Eph 6:12For our struggle is not against flesh and blood, but against the rulers, against the authorities, against the powers of this dark world and against the spiritual forces of evil in the heavenly realms.


My best guess is that gog is satan, a fallen angelic being, that is connected to the kings of Russia.

I would add that Ezek 38 and 39's gog invasion occurs when the Day of the Lord is beginning and the devil is just been cast down to the earth. Revelation 20 speaks of another gog invasion at the end of the millenium when satan has been loosed from being bound in an abyss for 1000 years. I would say that lends credence to the idea that gog refers to satan.

Last edited by Jensghost; 22nd December 2010 at 12:04 PM.
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Unread 22nd December 2010, 11:55 AM
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Unread 22nd December 2010, 12:41 PM
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Not to be a wiseguy, but the answer is Gog. Are you asking who he is?
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Unread 22nd December 2010, 12:43 PM
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Originally Posted by Jensghost View Post
Chief prince is a term that was also used in Daniel:


12Then said he unto me, Fear not, Daniel: for from the first day that thou didst set thine heart to understand, and to chasten thyself before thy God, thy words were heard, and I am come for thy words.
13But the prince of the kingdom of Persia withstood me one and twenty days: but, lo, Michael, one of the chief princes, came to help me; and I remained there with the kings of Persia.
14Now I am come to make thee understand what shall befall thy people in the latter days: for yet the vision is for many days.
15And when he had spoken such words unto me, I set my face toward the ground, and I became dumb.
16And, behold, one like the similitude of the sons of men touched my lips: then I opened my mouth, and spake, and said unto him that stood before me, O my lord, by the vision my sorrows are turned upon me, and I have retained no strength.
17For how can the servant of this my lord talk with this my lord? for as for me, straightway there remained no strength in me, neither is there breath left in me.
18Then there came again and touched me one like the appearance of a man, and he strengthened me,
19And said, O man greatly beloved, fear not: peace be unto thee, be strong, yea, be strong. And when he had spoken unto me, I was strengthened, and said, Let my lord speak; for thou hast strengthened me.
20Then said he, Knowest thou wherefore I come unto thee? and now will I return to fight with the prince of Persia: and when I am gone forth, lo, the prince of Grecia shall come. 21But I will shew thee that which is noted in the scripture of truth: and there is none that holdeth with me in these things, but Michael your prince.


Gabriel was speaking of angelic beings and the battle that they fight against each other.

Eph 6:12For our struggle is not against flesh and blood, but against the rulers, against the authorities, against the powers of this dark world and against the spiritual forces of evil in the heavenly realms.


My best guess is that gog is satan, a fallen angelic being, that is connected to the kings of Russia.

I would add that Ezek 38 and 39's gog invasion occurs when the Day of the Lord is beginning and the devil is just been cast down to the earth. Revelation 20 speaks of another gog invasion at the end of the millenium when satan has been loosed from being bound in an abyss for 1000 years. I would say that lends credence to the idea that gog refers to satan.
thank you! are those references to the same below?

Son of man, set your face toward Gog, of the land of Magog, the chief prince of Meshech and Tubal, and prophesy against him and say, Thus says the Lord God: Behold, I am against you, O Gog, chief prince of Meshech and Tubal.

~ child
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Unread 22nd December 2010, 12:43 PM
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Originally Posted by Zadok7000 View Post
Not to be a wiseguy, but the answer is Gog. Are you asking who he is?
yes! that's what i'm asking.
thanks zadok.
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Unread 22nd December 2010, 01:05 PM
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Originally Posted by child of Jesus View Post
thank you! are those references to the same below?

Son of man, set your face toward Gog, of the land of Magog, the chief prince of Meshech and Tubal, and prophesy against him and say, Thus says the Lord God: Behold, I am against you, O Gog, chief prince of Meshech and Tubal.

~ child
Yes.

Gog appears to be a reference to a spiritual being (fallen angel) that is over the land of Magog, like Gabriel mentioned in Daniel referring to the Prince of Persia and the Prince of Greece.
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Unread 22nd December 2010, 01:07 PM
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Originally Posted by child of Jesus View Post
yes! that's what i'm asking.
thanks zadok.
As pointed out above, the "chief prince" title in Daniel is important. The "prince" of Persia, Greece, Magog, power of the air, etc are all the same guy, IMO. Satan himself.
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Unread 22nd December 2010, 01:11 PM
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I just realized, based on Gabriel's words in Daniel, that when these spiritual battles are occuring, earthly battles occur in those regions.

So, when gog is stirred up, there is a heavenly battle going on and an earthly battle in the same region.

That is most interesting in light of Revelation 12 when there is a battle in heaven and satan is cast down, where he proceeds to spew a flood (army) against the woman (Israel).
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Unread 22nd December 2010, 01:13 PM
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The flood is out of his mouth, hisdaughterjen. IE Lies.
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