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Eschatology - Endtimes & Prophecy Forum The Endtimes & Prophecy Forum for the discussion of future events. No full preterist views. Partial preterists welcomed.

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Old 29th November 2010, 11:23 PM
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Who is Abomination Causing Desolation?

The verses about the abomination which causes desolation are translated diversely. Yet, there is a definite list of characteristics which appear uncontradictory:
- stands where it ought not
- characterized in numerous translations with personal pronoun "he"
- has alternative definition of "disgusting thing causing destruction"
- sacreligious
- has a relationship to Jerusalem

The abomination, as defined, is consistent with being a person.
The abomination is found in a "fortress" and a holy land.


Daniel 11
31 And arms shall stand on his part, and they shall pollute the sanctuary of strength, and shall take away the daily sacrifice, and they shall place the abomination that maketh desolate. 32 And such as do wickedly against the covenant shall he corrupt by flatteries: but the people that do know their God shall be strong, and do exploits. 33 And they that understand among the people shall instruct many: yet they shall fall by the sword, and by flame, by captivity, and by spoil, many days. 34 Now when they shall fall, they shall be holpen with a little help: but many shall cleave to them with flatteries. 35 And some of them of understanding shall fall, to try them, and to purge, and to make them white, even to the time of the end: because it is yet for a time appointed.
36 And the king shall do according to his will; and he shall exalt himself, and magnify himself above every god, and shall speak marvellous things against the God of gods, and shall prosper till the indignation be accomplished: for that that is determined shall be done. 37 Neither shall he regard the God of his fathers, nor the desire of women, nor regard any god: for he shall magnify himself above all. 38 But in his estate shall he honour the God of forces: and a god whom his fathers knew not shall he honour with gold, and silver, and with precious stones, and pleasant things. 39 Thus shall he do in the most strong holds with a strange god, whom he shall acknowledge and increase with glory: and he shall cause them to rule over many, and shall divide the land for gain.


Mark 13:14
KJV But when ye shall see the abomination of desolation, spoken of by Daniel the prophet, standing where it ought not, (let him that readeth understand,) then let them that be in Judaea flee to the mountains:
NIV When you see ‘the abomination that causes desolation standing where it does not belong—let the reader understand—then let those who are in Judea flee to the mountains.
NLT “The day is coming when you will see the sacrilegious object that causes desecration standing where he should not be.” (Reader, pay attention!) “Then those in Judea must flee to the hills.
ESV “But when you see the abomination of desolation standing where he ought not to be (let the reader understand), then let those who are in Judea flee to the mountains.
NAS “But when you see the ABOMINATION OF DESOLATION standing where it should not be (let the reader understand), then those who are in Judea must flee to the mountains.
GWT "When you see the disgusting thing that will cause destruction standing where it should not (let the reader take note), those of you in Judea should flee to the mountains.
ASV But when ye see the abomination of desolation standing where he ought not (let him that readeth understand), then let them that are in Judaea flee unto the mountains:
DRB And when you shall see the abomination of desolation, standing where it ought not: he that readeth let him understand: then let them that are in Judea, flee unto the mountains:
ERV But when ye see the abomination of desolation standing where he ought not (let him that readeth understand), then let them that are in Judaea flee unto the mountains:
WEB But when you see the abomination of desolation, spoken of by Daniel the prophet, standing where it ought not (let the reader understand), then let those who are in Judea flee to the mountains,
ISV So when you see the destructive desecration standing where it should not be (let the reader take note), then those who are in Judea must flee to the mountains.
WNT As soon, however, as you see the Abomination of Desolation standing where he ought not" --let the reader observe these words--"then let those in Judaea escape to the hills;
TNT Moreover when ye see the abominable desolation, whereof is spoken by Daniel the prophet, stand where it ought not, let him that readeth understand it. Then let them that be in jewrie, flee to the mountains.

Matthew 24:15
KJV When ye therefore shall see the abomination of desolation, spoken of by Daniel the prophet, stand in the holy place, (whoso readeth, let him understand 16Then let them which be in Judaea flee into the mountains:
NIV So when you see standing in the holy place ‘the abomination that causes desolation, spoken of through the prophet Daniel—let the reader understand— 16then let those who are in Judea flee to the mountains.
NLT The day is coming when you will see what Daniel the prophet spoke about—the sacrilegious object that causes desecration standing in the Holy Place.” (Reader, pay attention!) 16“Then those in Judea must flee to the hills.
ESV So when you see the abomination of desolation spoken of by the prophet Daniel, standing in the holy place (let the reader understand), 16then let those who are in Judea flee to the mountains.
NAS “Therefore when you see the ABOMINATION OF DESOLATION which was spoken of through Daniel the prophet, standing in the holy place (let the reader understand), 16then those who are in Judea must flee to the mountains.
GWT "The prophet Daniel said that the disgusting thing that will cause destruction will stand in the holy place. When you see this (let the reader take note), 16those of you in Judea should flee to the mountains.
ASV When therefore ye see the abomination of desolation, which was spoken of through Daniel the prophet, standing in the holy place (let him that readeth understand), 16then let them that are in Judaea flee unto the mountains:
DRB When therefore you shall see the abomination of desolation, which was spoken of by Daniel the prophet, standing in the holy place: he that readeth let him understand. 16 Then they that are in Judea, let them flee to the mountains:
ERV When therefore ye see the abomination of desolation, which was spoken of by Daniel the prophet, standing in the holy place (let him that readeth understand), 16 then let them that are in Judaea flee unto the mountains:
WEB "When, therefore, you see the abomination of desolation, which was spoken of through Daniel the prophet, standing in the holy place (let the reader understand), 16 then let those who are in Judea flee to the mountains.
ISV “So when you see the destructive desecration, mentioned by the prophet Daniel, standing in the Holy Place (let the reader take note),[e] 16then those who are in Judea must flee to the mountains.
WEY "When you have seen (to use the language of the Prophet Daniel) 16 "then let those who are in Judaea escape to the hills;
TNT When ye then shall see the abomination and desolation (spoken of by Daniel the prophet) stand in the holy place: whosoever readeth it, let him understand it. 16 Then let them which be in jury fly into the mountains.


Luke 21:20
KJV And when ye shall see Jerusalem compassed with armies, then know that the desolation thereof is nigh. 21Then let them which are in Judaea flee to the mountains; and let them which are in the midst of it depart out; and let not them that are in the countries enter thereinto.
NIV “When you see Jerusalem being surrounded by armies, you will know that its desolation is near. 21Then let those who are in Judea flee to the mountains, let those in the city get out, and let those in the country not enter the city.
NLT “And when you see Jerusalem surrounded by armies, then you will know that the time of its destruction has arrived. 21 Then those in Judea must flee to the hills. Those in Jerusalem must get out, and those out in the country should not return to the city.
ESV “But when you see Jerusalem surrounded by armies, then know that its desolation has come near. 21Then let those who are in Judea flee to the mountains, and let those who are inside the city depart, and let not those who are out in the country enter it,
NAS “But when you see Jerusalem surrounded by armies, then recognize that her desolation is near. 21“Then those who are in Judea must flee to the mountains, and those who are in the midst of the city must leave, and those who are in the country must not enter the city;
GWT "When you see armies camped around Jerusalem, realize that the time is near for it to be destroyed. 21Then those of you in Judea should flee to the mountains. Those of you in Jerusalem should leave it. Those of you in the fields shouldn't go back into them.
ASV But when ye see Jerusalem compassed with armies, then know that her desolation is at hand. 21Then let them that are in Judaea flee unto the mountains; and let them that are in the midst of her depart out; and let not them that are in the country enter therein.
DRB And when you shall see Jerusalem compassed about with an army; then know that the desolation thereof is at hand. 21 Then let those who are in Judea, flee to the mountains; and those who are in the midst thereof, depart out: and those who are in the countries, not enter into it.
ERV But when ye see Jerusalem compassed with armies, then know that her desolation is at hand. 21 Then let them that are in Judaea flee unto the mountains; and let them that are in the midst of her depart out; and let not them that are in the country enter therein.
WEB "But when you see Jerusalem surrounded by armies, then know that its desolation is at hand. 21 Then let those who are in Judea flee to the mountains. Let those who are in the midst of her depart. Let those who are in the country not enter therein.
ISV “When you see Jerusalem surrounded by armies, then understand that its devastation is approaching. 21Then those in Judea must flee to the mountains, those inside the city must leave it, and those in the countryside must not go into it,
WEY "But when you see Jerusalem with armies encamping round her on every side, then be certain that her overthrow is close at hand. 21 Then let those who shall be in Judaea escape to the hills; let those who are in the city leave it, and those who are in the country not enter in.
TNT And when ye see Ierusalem besieged with an host, then understand, that the desolation of the same is nye. 21 Then let them which are in jewry fly to the mountains. And let them which are in the midst of it, depart out. And let not them that are in other countries, enter there in.


Daniel 12:9
KJV And he said, Go thy way, Daniel: for the words are closed up and sealed till the time of the end. 10Many shall be purified, and made white, and tried; but the wicked shall do wickedly: and none of the wicked shall understand; but the wise shall understand. 11And from the time that the daily sacrifice shall be taken away, and the abomination that maketh desolate set up, there shall be a thousand two hundred and ninety days. 12Blessed is he that waiteth, and cometh to the thousand three hundred and five and thirty days. 13But go thou thy way till the end be: for thou shalt rest, and stand in thy lot at the end of the days.


Daniel 12:11
NIV From the time that the daily sacrifice is abolished and the abomination that causes desolation is set up, there will be 1,290 days.
NLT From the time the daily sacrifice is stopped and the sacrilegious object that causes desecration is set up to be worshiped, there will be 1,290 days.
ESV And from the time that the regular burnt offering is taken away and the abomination that makes desolate is set up, there shall be 1,290 days.
NAS From the time that the regular sacrifice is abolished and the abomination of desolation is set up, there will be 1,290 days.
GWT From the time the daily burnt offering is taken away and the disgusting thing that causes destruction is set up, there will be 1,290 days.
ASV And from the time that the continual burnt-offering'shall be taken away, and the abomination that maketh desolate set up, there shall be a thousand and two hundred and ninety days.
DRB And from the time when the continual sacrifice shall be taken away, and the abomination unto desolation shall be set up, there shall be a thousand two hundred ninety days,
ERV And from the time that the continual burnt offering shall be taken away, and the abomination that maketh desolate set up, there shall be a thousand two hundred and ninety days.
WEB From the time that the continual [burnt offering] shall be taken away, and the abomination that makes desolate set up, there shall be one thousand two hundred ninety days.


Daniel 11:31
NIV His armed forces will rise up to desecrate the temple fortress and will abolish the daily sacrifice. Then they will set up the abomination that causes desolation.
NLT His army will take over the Temple fortress, pollute the sanctuary, put a stop to the daily sacrifices, and set up the sacrilegious object that causes desecration.
ESV Forces from him shall appear and profane the temple and fortress, and shall take away the regular burnt offering. And they shall set up the abomination that makes desolate.
NAS Forces from him will arise, desecrate the sanctuary fortress, and do away with the regular sacrifice. And they will set up the abomination of desolation.
GWT His forces will dishonor the holy place (the fortress), take away the daily burnt offering, and set up the disgusting thing that causes destruction.
ASV And forces shall stand on his part, and they shall profane the sanctuary, even the fortress, and shall take away the continual burnt-offering , and they shall set up the abomination that maketh desolate.
DRB And arms shall stand on his part, and they shall defile the sanctuary of strength, and shall take away the continual sacrifice, and they shall place there the abomination unto desolation.
ERV And arms shall stand on his part, and they shall profane the sanctuary, even the fortress, and shall take away the continual burnt offering; and they shall set up the abomination that maketh desolate.
WEB Forces shall stand on his part, and they shall profane the sanctuary, even the fortress, and shall take away the continual [burnt offering], and they shall set up the abomination that makes desolate.
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Rev 19:9-10 And he saith unto me, Write, Blessed are they which are called unto the marriage supper of the Lamb. And he saith unto me, These are the true sayings of God. And I fell at his feet to worship him. And he said unto me, See thou do it not: I am thy fellowservant, and of thy brethren that have the testimony of Jesus: worship God: for the testimony of Jesus is the spirit of prophecy.
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Old 30th November 2010, 07:59 AM
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how about 'abominable desolation'?

utter desolation. nuclear war.
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Old 30th November 2010, 08:25 AM
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Originally Posted by granpa View Post
how about 'abominable desolation'?

utter desolation. nuclear war.
LOL. I was really focusing on abomination rather than "desolation".

Nuclear war is certainly one way desolation could be achieved. I suppose nukes could be considered an abomination, perhaps sacreligious, and maybe even considered to "stand" somewhere. One could even name a nuke. That would kinda fit the personal pronoun usage in scripture. I'm just not sure that's the first conclusion I'd reach for though.

.
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Old 30th November 2010, 11:34 PM
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The abomination that caused the desolation of Israel was the Roman armies standing on Holy ground, desecrating it.
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Old 1st December 2010, 01:41 PM
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You are right to recognize the personal pronouns.

and for the overspreading of abominations he shall make it desolate

"desolatOR standing where HE ought not" properly translated

Where is this place where he ought not be?
If any man defile the temple of God, him shall God destroy; for the temple of God is holy, which temple ye are.
And what agreement hath the temple of God with idols? for ye are the temple of the living God; as God hath said, I will dwell in them, and walk in them; and I will be their God, and they shall be my people.

WHO is this?
the son of perdition, who opposeth and exalteth himself above all that is called God, or that is worshipped; so that he as God sitteth in the temple of God, shewing himself that he is God.

Satan physically reigns from Jerusalem, but comes for the Church and most will be deceived by his lies.
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Old 1st December 2010, 01:51 PM
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how does one say 'it' in hebrew?
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Old 1st December 2010, 02:21 PM
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Jesus said, "

15When ye therefore shall see the abomination of desolation, spoken of by Daniel the prophet, stand in the holy place, (whoso readeth, let him understand) 16Then let them which be in Judaea flee into the mountains:


What can we discern from this?

1. There is an abomination which can be seen that causes desolation.
2. It is referred to in Daniel.
3. The desolation is of Israel.
4. The abomination stands in the holy place.

What does Daniel say about an abomination of desolation?

Daniel 11:31And arms shall stand on his part, and they shall pollute the sanctuary of strength, and shall take away the daily sacrifice, and they shall place the abomination that maketh desolate.

32And such as do wickedly against the covenant shall he corrupt by flatteries: but the people that do know their God shall be strong, and do exploits.
33And they that understand among the people shall instruct many: yet they shall fall by the sword, and by flame, by captivity, and by spoil, many days.
34Now when they shall fall, they shall be holpen with a little help: but many shall cleave to them with flatteries. 35And some of them of understanding shall fall, to try them, and to purge, and to make them white, even to the time of the end: because it is yet for a time appointed.

And this:

Daniel 12:11And from the time that the daily sacrifice shall be taken away, and the abomination that maketh desolate set up, there shall be a thousand two hundred and ninety days.

Luke writes that the abomination of desolation is armies and so does the Psalmist:

Psalm 74


1O God, why hast thou cast us off for ever? why doth thine anger smoke against the sheep of thy pasture?
2Remember thy congregation, which thou hast purchased of old; the rod of thine inheritance, which thou hast redeemed; this mount Zion, wherein thou hast dwelt.
3Lift up thy feet unto the perpetual desolations; even all that the enemy hath done wickedly in the sanctuary.
4Thine enemies roar in the midst of thy congregations; they set up their ensigns for signs.
5A man was famous according as he had lifted up axes upon the thick trees.
6But now they break down the carved work thereof at once with axes and hammers.
7They have cast fire into thy sanctuary, they have defiled by casting down the dwelling place of thy name to the ground.
8They said in their hearts, Let us destroy them together: they have burned up all the synagogues of God in the land.
9We see not our signs: there is no more any prophet: neither is there among us any that knoweth how long. 10O God, how long shall the adversary reproach? shall the enemy blaspheme thy name for ever?


Luke 21:20And when ye shall see Jerusalem compassed with armies, then know that the desolation thereof is nigh.

Therefore, the abomination of desolation which Jesus spoke of, referred to in Daniel (definitely Daniel 11) is the Roman armies which surrounded Israel, standing on sacred ground, defiling the temple, setting it on fire, setting up their ensigns and desolating Israel until the time of the end.
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Old 1st December 2010, 02:30 PM
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Furthermore, there is no scripture, anywhere, that describes the antichrist as THE abomination of desolation.

Jesus makes it clear that it is the armies that surround Israel that will not leave one stone upon another until the time of the end.
Luk 19:43 For the days shall come upon thee, that thine enemies shall cast a trench about thee, and compass thee round, and keep thee in on every side,
Luk 19:44And shall lay thee even with the ground, and thy children within thee; and they shall not leave in thee one stone upon another; because thou knewest not the time of thy visitation.

Luk 21:6[As for] these things which ye behold, the days will come, in which there shall not be left one stone upon another, that shall not be thrown down.
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