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  #1  
Unread 19th October 2010, 11:21 PM
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Fallen Angels vs. Demons

Many assume that fallen angels and demons are the same thing, but when you compare the two, they seem different.

No mention of demons before Noah's flood.
Angels can manifest bodies, but demons can't.
Demons can possess human and animal bodies, but angels don't.

What do you think?
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- Do you know what really happened in the days of Noah? Were the sons of God actually fallen angels that had sex with human women?
Were the giants actually angel-human hybrids known as the Nephilim?
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  #2  
Unread 20th October 2010, 12:44 AM
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Originally Posted by ministerfortson View Post
Many assume that fallen angels and demons are the same thing, but when you compare the two, they seem different.

No mention of demons before Noah's flood.
Angels can manifest bodies, but demons can't.
Demons can possess human and animal bodies, but angels don't.

What do you think?
Sounds like something out of the Book of Enoch.
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Unread 20th October 2010, 07:19 AM
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Yep, I always thought they were the same, but hey, I guess when it all boils down to it....they're all nasty little beasties. :-)
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Unread 21st October 2010, 07:43 AM
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Satan is a fallen angel.
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Unread 21st October 2010, 01:24 PM
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My lord and god, my lord and guardian ANGEL, my Šu-Suen who cheers Enlil's heart, if only you would handle your sweet place, if only you would grasp your place that is sweet as honey.



The above extract dates to earlier than 3,000BC, and is part of a vast collection of material of Sumerian literature at the British Museum in London.

The immediate natural assumption to such archaeology, is that Angels, as a concept, was completely manufactured by humans.

However, if one wishes to BELIEVE that this is not so, then we resultantly have to accept the fact that God revealed himself to pagan peoples initially, and in a myriad of different guises.

But then Genesis does use the word "we", when describing another two pagan concepts, Heaven and Hell.
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Unread 22nd October 2010, 06:37 AM
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G'day ministerfortson,

What do you think?
Personally I think that "demon" is just another name for a fallen angel or an evil spirit.

No mention of demons before Noah's flood.
To be fair, there are no mention of angels (except for the devil in the snake) before Noah's flood either. This is because the Bible is a book documenting God's relationship to man.

Angels can manifest bodies, but demons can't.
Just because there are no recorded examples of demons manifesting as humans doesn't mean that they don't or can't. The devil evidently did when he tempted Jesus and the Bible tells us that he can masquerade as an angel of the light. Unlike demons, angels are messengers of God who are sent to reveal and minister to believers, so of course they are going to appear so those believers can see and interact with them.

Many times that demons possess people it is often because the person has opened themselves to it via occultism or a decision of their heart, as in Judas.

Demons can possess human and animal bodies, but angels don't.
It was the devil (a fallen angel) who possessed the snake in the Garden of Eden, so evidently angels can possess if they choose to.

Perhaps angels don't possess because they have no need to possess creatures as it is not in-line with their purpose. When you look at those possessed souls in Scripture they were tortured by the demons with sickness, insanity, or psychic abilities. They were "compelled" to do evil and depravity. Demons possess to destroy and perpetuate suffering because, like Satan, they hate God and they hate humanity. In Christ's words, like their master they have the sole purpose which is to steal, kill, and destroy. We don't know exactly how they operate, but we know that they can never harm a child of God.

If demons (evil spirits) aren't the fallen angels, then what have those fallen angels been doing for the last six thousand years? It depends on how you view Jude 6 and what you think of the Nephilim in Genesis 6, I guess. Suffice to say that personally I don't find disembodied spirits to be an academically or biblically satisfying answer.

Sinful2B,

I don't know much regarding old ancient cultures, ancient history has never interested me. But I have read that there are many parallels between the first few books of the Bible (and also the rest of the Old Testament) and stories from ancient cultures. Could such similarities be caused by stories of angels being passed on and distorted? For example, many cultures around the world (such as the Aboriginal people) speak of a time when the whole Earth was covered by water and a family survived. While the stories are different, the fact that they all speak of this event seems to suggest that it was passed on and distorted over time, most likely from the time of the Tower of Babel when humanity was dispersed.

Just because it was written first by the Sumerians does not mean that they invented the concept of angels or that the author of Genesis copied the idea. It means just that: they recorded it first.

~ Sarrapin.

Last edited by Sarrapin; 22nd October 2010 at 06:46 AM.
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Unread 22nd October 2010, 06:42 AM
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This book does a fun job of exploring the difference between demons and fallen angel.

Amazon.com: God's Demon (9780765348654): Wayne Barlowe: Books: Reviews, Prices & more


Demon Major, Sargatanas decides he's tired of living in Hell so he stages a revolt against the Regent, Be'elzebub (Lucifer went AWOL after the Fall, as it happens) and-- Oops, can't spoil the plot too much!
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Unread 22nd October 2010, 03:47 PM
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I don't know much regarding old ancient cultures, ancient history has never interested me. But I have read that there are many parallels between the first few books of the Bible (and also the rest of the Old Testament) and stories from ancient cultures. Could such similarities be caused by stories of angels being passed on and distorted? For example, many cultures around the world (such as the Aboriginal people) speak of a time when the whole Earth was covered by water and a family survived. While the stories are different, the fact that they all speak of this event seems to suggest that it was passed on and distorted over time, most likely from the time of the Tower of Babel when humanity was dispersed.
The flood epics of which you speak, are indeed stories relating to actual events, that of the breach into the Mediterranean Sea and the bosphorus into the Black Sea. Rising water levels post the last Ice Age, indeed confirm the events as beginning approx. 12,500BC. If you take a look at Google Earth, it is easily possible to view the long term breaching effect on the now underwater land mass adjacent to Gibraltar. Marine archaeologists have confirmed the existence of sea bed "roads and settlements" beneath the Meditteranean, as also with the Black Sea, from which archaeology continues to be forthcoming.
The Tower of Babel of which you speak, is Sumerian in origin, being a ziggurat in Shinar, Sumer, that formed the Gate to God, it's related events being but pagan manufacture and embellishment, as the transliteration of Babel testifies.
Without Paul, one could argue that Christianity would not exist, and without Jesus it would be up a stream without a paddle, so it really becomes irrelevent who wrote what first pre-christianity - they were all pagan. The fact that they used all the concepts that were later to become the cornerstones of Christianity itself, is a massive yoke on Christianity's back. The chronology of christianity is clear - it begins with Jesus, not the pagan Jews.
After all, even to this day, Christians do not call Jesus by the name that their apparent God demanded.
Is that the biggest thorn in Christianity's side?
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