| Paterology, Christology & Pneumatology The forum to discuss the doctrine & nature of God the Father, Christ the Son & the Holy Spirit. |
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5th December 2010, 09:11 AM
|  | The Inquisitor
   
| | Join Date: 8th August 2002 Location: North West England
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Reps: 19,248,596,051,188,072 (power: 19,248,596,051,203) | | Originally Posted by GeorgeTwo  How different we are! I have read Simonline's posts for years and started a hard copy folder called, "Simon Says."
His posts are an excellent resource and there is nothing heretical about them. Thanks George. I just wish that I had the same faith in me that you've got. The truth is, the more I know, the more I realize that I don't know. Simonline.
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THE MESSIAH IS ONE PERSON SIMULTANEOUSLY EXISTING IN TWO (DISTINCT BUT NOT SEPARATE) WAYS AS TWO (MUTUALLY EXCLUSIVE) NATURES - DIVINE [YHWH] AND HUMAN [JESUS OF NAZARETH]. THE MESSIAH EXISTS FIRST AND FOREMOST AS THE DIVINE CREATOR AND ONLY IN A SECONDARY SENSE AS THE HUMAN CREATURE. |
5th December 2010, 09:44 AM
|  | Member
 
| | Join Date: 31st May 2008
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Reps: 9,280,440,520,382,040 (power: 9,280,440,520,388) | | Originally Posted by John Zain Would anyone care to offer his/her opinion on ...
why Jesus was always praying to His Father in Heaven?
The Father and His Word/Son always communicated.
The Father is the man Jesus of Nazareth's God. As a human being He prayed to the Father. |
5th December 2010, 09:46 AM
| | Member
| | Join Date: 31st May 2008
Posts: 527
Blessings: 59,527 My Mood
Reps: 9,280,440,520,382,040 (power: 9,280,440,520,388) | | Originally Posted by Simonline Thanks George. I just wish that I had the same faith in me that you've got. The truth is, the more I know, the more I realize that I don't know.
Simonline.
Isn't that a sign of intelligence? |
5th December 2010, 02:05 PM
| | Senior Member
  
 | | Join Date: 14th September 2010
Posts: 860
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Reps: 70,625,185,861,416,512 (power: 0) | | | Luke 22:
32 But I have prayed for you, that your faith should not fail;
and when you have returned to Me, strengthen your brethren.”
If Jesus was "fully God", why did He need to pray (to the Father)
to have their faith strengthened?
Luke 22:
43 Then an angel appeared to Him from heaven, strengthening Him.
44 And being in agony, He prayed more earnestly. Then His sweat
became like great drops of blood falling down to the ground.
If Jesus was "fully God", why did He need an angel to strengthen Him,
and why did He need to pray (to the Father) to reduce His pain?
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5th December 2010, 02:40 PM
| | Alten Schule Baptist
54 
| | Join Date: 8th March 2006 Location: OHIO
Posts: 598
Blessings: 58,032
Reps: 8,511,946,606,238,761 (power: 8,511,946,606,246) | | | Joh 1:14 And the Word became flesh and dwelt among us, and we have seen his glory, glory as of the only Son from the Father, full of grace and truth.
Gal 4:4 But when the fullness of time had come, God sent forth his Son, born of woman, born under the law,
Php 2:5 Have this mind among yourselves, which is yours in Christ Jesus,
Php 2:6 who, though he was in the form of God, did not count equality with God a thing to be grasped,
Php 2:7 but made himself nothing, taking the form of a servant, being born in the likeness of men.
Php 2:8 And being found in human form, he humbled himself by becoming obedient to the point of death, even death on a cross.
Jesus was not just a man, but the perfect man, what does the perfect man do? He worships the True God, He prays to the True God and depends on God to supply all His need, He prays for the will of the Father to be done, He has perfect faith, He comes not to do His will but the will of His Father who sent Him.
Php 2:9 Therefore God has highly exalted him and bestowed on him the name that is above every name,
Php 2:10 so that at the name of Jesus every knee should bow, in heaven and on earth and under the earth,
Php 2:11 and every tongue confess that Jesus Christ is Lord, to the glory of God the Father.
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6th December 2010, 01:02 PM
|  | Chewbacha
| | Join Date: 15th February 2002
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6th December 2010, 06:56 PM
| | Senior Member
| | Join Date: 14th September 2010
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Reps: 70,625,185,861,416,512 (power: 0) | | | Phil ...
In my last post I was just questioning the many Christians
who insist that Jesus was "fully GOD" while on earth.
You seemed to have missed my point.
How about trying again? |
6th December 2010, 07:35 PM
| | Member
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| | Join Date: 4th April 2007 Location: Australia
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Reps: 127,776,370,444,235,264 (power: 127,776,370,444,242) | | | That Christ was fully God and fully human in one hypostatic union is the usual conception. That the Son is not the Father has always been recognized. As St Athanasius said, His divinity is revealed in His humanity, and His humanity in His divinity.
That He was fully God and fully Human by nature allows Him to assume Humanity into the divine/eternal life. No messenger or angel would or could do as they are not fully God. That God emptied Himself and suffered as a human does is no no way unbefitting of God's love, compassion and mercy.
Thus, prior to the Nestorian controversy, the church had opposed three extreme misrepresentations of the person and work of Christ. (1) Christ was a divine being and therefore could not suffer (Docetism); (2) God the Father was temporarily changed into the suffering Son, at the expense of his full divinity and transcendence (Patripassianism); (3) Christ was involved in change, birth, suffering, and death, therefore he could not be fully divine (Arianism). Having ruled out the three extreme options, the church asserted that the Son of God suffered in reality and not mere appearance; that it was the Son who became incarnate and suffered, not the Father; that the Son’s involvement in suffering did not diminish his divine status, because the incarnation was a supreme act of divine compassion and as such it was most appropriate and God-befitting.
The justification of the incarnation as an act worthy of God is a common theme of Christian apologetic against philosophically minded pagans, whose understanding of God did not allow for the possibility that God could empty himself, assume the human condition, and suffer the consequences. The very fact that the Fathers quite self-consciously understood their argument for the God-befitting character of the incarnation to be directed against Hellenistic philosophers puts into question the assumption that the Fathers asserted divine impassibility simply as a result of their uncritical acceptance of the conceptuality of Hellenistic theological thought.
Gavrilyuk, Paul L. – The Suffering of the Impassible God – The Dialectics of Patristic Thought [Oxford Early Christian Studies, 2004 p. 18]  |
7th December 2010, 09:50 AM
| | The Inquisitor
| | Join Date: 8th August 2002 Location: North West England
Posts: 4,998
Blessings: 77,009 My Mood
Reps: 19,248,596,051,188,072 (power: 19,248,596,051,203) | | Originally Posted by John Zain Luke 22:
32 But I have prayed for you, that your faith should not fail;
and when you have returned to Me, strengthen your brethren.”
If Jesus was "fully God", why did He need to pray (to the Father)
to have their faith strengthened? As I keep saying, It is the Son (the Second Person of the Trinity) Who is both authentically Divine as well as authentically human but the way that He is authentically Divine is totally different to the way that He is authentically human. It is for this reason that we cannot say that YHWH is human or that Jesus of Nazareth is Divine but the Son simultaneously exists as both YHWH and Jesus of Nazareth. Originally Posted by John Zain Luke 22: Originally Posted by John Zain 43 Then an angel appeared to Him from heaven, strengthening Him.
44 And being in agony, He prayed more earnestly. Then His sweat
became like great drops of blood falling down to the ground.
If Jesus was "fully God", why did He need an angel to strengthen Him,
and why did He need to pray (to the Father) to reduce His pain? Same answer. Jesus of Nazareth is not Divine at all. He is authentically human but the Person who is Jesus of Nazareth also exists as the Divine Creator, YHWH but the way that He exists as the Divine Creator is totally different to the way that he exists as the human creature, Jesus of Nazareth. Simonline.
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THE MESSIAH IS ONE PERSON SIMULTANEOUSLY EXISTING IN TWO (DISTINCT BUT NOT SEPARATE) WAYS AS TWO (MUTUALLY EXCLUSIVE) NATURES - DIVINE [YHWH] AND HUMAN [JESUS OF NAZARETH]. THE MESSIAH EXISTS FIRST AND FOREMOST AS THE DIVINE CREATOR AND ONLY IN A SECONDARY SENSE AS THE HUMAN CREATURE. |
7th December 2010, 09:54 AM
| | The Inquisitor
| | Join Date: 8th August 2002 Location: North West England
Posts: 4,998
Blessings: 77,009 My Mood
Reps: 19,248,596,051,188,072 (power: 19,248,596,051,203) | | Originally Posted by Phileoeklogos Joh 1:14 And the Word became flesh and dwelt among us, and we have seen his glory, glory as of the only Son from the Father, full of grace and truth.
Gal 4:4 But when the fullness of time had come, God sent forth his Son, born of woman, born under the law,
Php 2:5 Have this mind among yourselves, which is yours in Christ Jesus,
Php 2:6 who, though he was in the form of God, did not count equality with God a thing to be grasped,
Php 2:7 but made himself nothing, taking the form of a servant, being born in the likeness of men.
Php 2:8 And being found in human form, he humbled himself by becoming obedient to the point of death, even death on a cross.
Jesus was not just a man, but the perfect man, what does the perfect man do? He worships the True God, He prays to the True God and depends on God to supply all His need, He prays for the will of the Father to be done, He has perfect faith, He comes not to do His will but the will of His Father who sent Him.
Php 2:9 Therefore God has highly exalted him and bestowed on him the name that is above every name,
Php 2:10 so that at the name of Jesus every knee should bow, in heaven and on earth and under the earth,
Php 2:11 and every tongue confess that Jesus Christ is Lord, to the glory of God the Father.
Absolutely (and the correct translation of Philippians too)! Simonline.
__________________
THE MESSIAH IS ONE PERSON SIMULTANEOUSLY EXISTING IN TWO (DISTINCT BUT NOT SEPARATE) WAYS AS TWO (MUTUALLY EXCLUSIVE) NATURES - DIVINE [YHWH] AND HUMAN [JESUS OF NAZARETH]. THE MESSIAH EXISTS FIRST AND FOREMOST AS THE DIVINE CREATOR AND ONLY IN A SECONDARY SENSE AS THE HUMAN CREATURE. | | |
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