How sinles must I be in order to be perfect?

Byfaithalone1 · #1 12th October 2010, 06:18 PM

Mrs. White writes that we will bring with us to heaven the character we develop here on earth and that our characters will not be changed at Christ's second coming. In light of this . . .

What type of character will we take with us into Heaven?

What type of character must we develop here on earth prior to Christ's second coming?

BFA

Laodicean · #2 12th October 2010, 09:08 PM

Originally Posted by Byfaithalone1

Mrs. White writes that we will bring with us to heaven the character we develop here on earth and that our characters will not be changed at Christ's second coming. In light of this . . .

At whatever stage of sanctification we are at, at the end of time or when we die, we take that character with us to heaven and receive our reward according to the works we have done. "For the Son of man shall come in the glory of his Father with his angels; and then he shall reward every man according to his works." Matthew 16:27. But as to our entitlement to heaven, it will not be based on whatever works we have done out of love for our God Who has saved us. Our entitlement to heaven will be the righteousness of Christ that we have accepted as our wedding garment.

We need to be clear that it is not the works that we have done in character growth that will save us. Even though there are rewards for the work we do, this work is not what saves us.

Originally Posted by Byfaithalone1

What type of character will we take with us into Heaven?

We will take to Heaven the work we have done on our character development, but it is totally covered by the perfect character of Jesus, either at our death or at the end of time.

Originally Posted by Byfaithalone1

What type of character must we develop here on earth prior to Christ's second coming?

BFA

We develop the best we can under our varying circumstances, but always under the umbrella and protection of Christ's righteousness. Just keep in mind that it is not the characters we develop that gain us entrance into Heaven. It is only and always the character of Jesus, our righteousness, that allows us into Heaven.

Joe67 · #3 13th October 2010, 08:40 AM

Those who are hoping to go to heaven cannot walk humbly before their God.

Joe

Byfaithalone1 · #4 13th October 2010, 09:02 AM

Originally Posted by Laodicean

At whatever stage of sanctification we are at, at the end of time or when we die, we take that character with us to heaven and receive our reward according to the works we have done.

I'm not sure how to quantify this (or even whether it can be quantified) but I'd like to follow your thought process a bit. If a person is in the early stages of sanctification (to use your phrase) "at the end of time," I'd assume this means that, although he may be covered by Christ's robe of righteousness, he is still sinning. If his character is not changed at Christ's second coming and if he must take to heaven the character he formed here on earth, does this mean he will sin in Heaven?

If man's character is not changed at Christ's second coming, at what point does he become sinless (if ever)?

BFA

Laodicean · #5 13th October 2010, 10:54 AM

Originally Posted by Byfaithalone1

I'm not sure how to quantify this (or even whether it can be quantified) but I'd like to follow your thought process a bit. If a person is in the early stages of sanctification (to use your phrase) "at the end of time," I'd assume this means that, although he may be covered by Christ's robe of righteousness, he is still sinning. If his character is not changed at Christ's second coming and if he must take to heaven the character he formed here on earth, does this mean he will sin in Heaven?

If man's character is not changed at Christ's second coming, at what point does he become sinless (if ever)?

BFA

If you are abiding in Jesus, and you lose your temper, I imagine you would consider that to be sinning, right? But not according to the Bible. The moment you accept Jesus and trust in Him, you are considered to be sinless before God. God sees only the righteousness of Christ that covers you, and therefore you are now sinless.

Your defects and flaws of character, the tendencies to wrong ways of living are no longer "sin" because you are no longer separated from God. You have been reconciled through the mediation of Jesus.

So if you would stop gazing at yourself and your own works, and keep your eyes fixed on Jesus, you don't need to worry about becoming sinless. You have been justified at conversion, and are just-as-if you never sinned.

What a wonderful gift!!

PerrySB · #6 13th October 2010, 12:55 PM

Mrs. White writes that we will bring with us to heaven the character we develop here on earth and that our characters will not be changed at Christ's second coming.

This is interesting and I think she was exactly correct. However remember how Paul struggled with the battle between the flesh and the spirit. His spirit was in alignment with God’s will, his flesh though fought against it.

I believe our basic personality (character) will remain the same however we will be free of fleshly influences that cause us to stumble.

Here is where I have a tendency to jump outside the box. Anyone who has done any near death studies (of Christians, and Betty Eddie being a good example) would see that White was correct in this case. However whenever I do look outside the box, I do always compare my findings to scripture.

It is my belief that complete sanctification in the flesh is not possible with anyone other than Jesus

Joe67 · #7 13th October 2010, 01:06 PM

Originally Posted by PerrySB

This is interesting and I think she was exactly correct. However remember how Paul struggled with the battle between the flesh and the spirit. His spirit was in alignment with God’s will, his flesh though fought against it.

I believe our basic personality (character) will remain the same however we will be free of fleshly influences that cause us to stumble.

Here is where I have a tendency to jump outside the box. Anyone who has done any near death studies (of Christians, and Betty Eddie being a good example) would see that White was correct in this case. However whenever I do look outside the box, I do always compare my findings to scripture.

It is my belief that complete sanctification in the flesh is not possible with anyone other than Jesus

We will be free of idolatry. Righteousness will be credited to us.

We will be free of sorcery. We will overcome the angel even as Jacob.

Our animal needs will wear a harness.

Joe

Byfaithalone1 · #8 13th October 2010, 02:40 PM

Originally Posted by PerrySB

This is interesting and I think she was exactly correct. However remember how Paul struggled with the battle between the flesh and the spirit. His spirit was in alignment with God’s will, his flesh though fought against it.

I believe our basic personality (character) will remain the same however we will be free of fleshly influences that cause us to stumble.

Here is where I have a tendency to jump outside the box. Anyone who has done any near death studies (of Christians, and Betty Eddie being a good example) would see that White was correct in this case. However whenever I do look outside the box, I do always compare my findings to scripture.

It is my belief that complete sanctification in the flesh is not possible with anyone other than Jesus

Thanks for the thoughts! As I understand it, we are sinners now (even if our sins are covered by Christ's robe of righteousness). Will there ever come a time when this is no longer true?

BFA

PerrySB · #9 13th October 2010, 03:58 PM

Will there ever come a time when this is no longer true?

Wow, that is the million dollar question. How can any of us answer that, personally I think we need to wait till we get there to find out.

Soon144k · #10 13th October 2010, 04:05 PM

Where does Jesus Christ personally say (recorded by His own eyewitness disciple, not pretenders) that our sins are covered by His robe of righteousness.

This is an important discussion. So in aid of clarity please interpret the two following verses in light of the belief that our sins are covered by the robe of righteousness of Jesus Christ such that we can fool God into judging us as sinless when we still maintain sin in our lives.

Many shall purify themselves and make themselves white and be refined, but the wicked shall act wickedly. And none of the wicked shall understand, but those who are wise shall understand. Dan.12:10.

(7) Let us rejoice and exult and give him the glory, for the marriage of the Lamb has come, and his Bride has made herself ready; [bless and do not curse] (8) it was granted her to clothe herself with fine linen, bright and pure”— for the fine linen is the righteous deeds of the saints. Rev.19:7-8.