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Eschatology - Endtimes & Prophecy Forum The Endtimes & Prophecy Forum for the discussion of future events. No full preterist views. Partial preterists welcomed.

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  #1  
Unread 6th September 2010, 03:26 PM
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Is there anybody in Heaven?

This question goes out to the Futurists.

Is there anyone in Heaven right now,other than the Trinity and angels, if Jesus has not returned?

John 14

2"In My Father's house are many dwelling places; if it were not so, I would have told you; for I go to prepare a place for you. 3"If I go and prepare a place for you, I will come again and receive you to Myself, that where I am, there you may be also.

John 3
13"No one has ascended into heaven, but He who descended from heaven: the Son of Man.

So Jesus says no one has ascended into heaven and since, according to you, He has not returned yet, is there anybody in heaven?
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  #2  
Unread 6th September 2010, 03:35 PM
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I believe there are many saved sleeping in the dust of the earth -- in the grave. When Jesus returns they as well as the living saved will finally be delivered.
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  #3  
Unread 6th September 2010, 03:57 PM
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Graymonkey, the answer is no, but you've already answered by quoting jn 3:13.

also peter had this to say:

Acts 2:29 ( NKJV ) 29“Men and brethren, let me speak freely to you of the patriarch David, that he is both dead and buried, and his tomb is with us to this day.
Acts 2:34 ( NKJV ) 34“For David did not ascend into the heavens, but he says himself:
‘The Lord said to my Lord,
“Sit at My right hand,

and if anyone should be in heaven by the "popular belief", then to me, it would be david, a man after God's own heart.

these verses convince me that no man has ascended to heaven.

however, there are verses that say david will be in the first resurrection:

Ezekiel 37:23-25 ( NKJV ) 23They shall not defile themselves anymore with their idols, nor with their detestable things, nor with any of their transgressions; but I will deliver them from all their dwelling places in which they have sinned, and will cleanse them. Then they shall be My people, and I will be their God.
24“David My servant shall be king over them, and they shall all have one shepherd; they shall also walk in My judgments and observe My statutes, and do them. 25Then they shall dwell in the land that I have given to Jacob My servant, where your fathers dwelt; and they shall dwell there, they, their children, and their children’s children, forever; and My servant David shall be their prince forever.

these verse are talking about a time after Christ's return!
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  #4  
Unread 6th September 2010, 04:05 PM
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Originally Posted by ivebeenshown View Post
I believe there are many saved sleeping in the dust of the earth -- in the grave. When Jesus returns they as well as the living saved will finally be delivered.
What about absent from the body present with the Lord?
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  #5  
Unread 6th September 2010, 04:07 PM
Liberalism has taken the place of Persecution.

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Originally Posted by graymonkey View Post
This question goes out to the Futurists.

Is there anyone in Heaven right now,other than the Trinity and angels, if Jesus has not returned?

John 14

2"In My Father's house are many dwelling places; if it were not so, I would have told you; for I go to prepare a place for you. 3"If I go and prepare a place for you, I will come again and receive you to Myself, that where I am, there you may be also.

John 3
13"No one has ascended into heaven, but He who descended from heaven: the Son of Man.

So Jesus says no one has ascended into heaven and since, according to you, He has not returned yet, is there anybody in heaven?
"Therefore, being always of good courage, and knowing that while we are at home in the body we are absent from the Lord-for we walk by faith, not by sight-we are of good courage, I say, and prefer rather to be absent from the body and to be at home with the Lord" (2 Cor. 5:6-8).

When a Christian dies, their soul goes immediately to heaven. Those souls will not be joined with their resurrected bodies until they are caught up together with those who are alive to meet the Lord in the air (1 Thess. 413-18).

In Christ,
Tracey
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  #6  
Unread 6th September 2010, 04:10 PM
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Originally Posted by Tractor1 View Post
"Therefore, being always of good courage, and knowing that while we are at home in the body we are absent from the Lord-for we walk by faith, not by sight-we are of good courage, I say, and prefer rather to be absent from the body and to be at home with the Lord" (2 Cor. 5:6-8).

When a Christian dies, their soul goes immediately to heaven. Those souls will not be joined with their resurrected bodies until they are caught up together with those who are alive to meet the Lord in the air (1 Thess. 413-18).

In Christ,
Tracey
But if Jesus has not returned yet they are not in heaven.

Doesn't Jesus have to return first before anyone can be in heaven?
see the verses I supplied in original post
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  #7  
Unread 6th September 2010, 04:35 PM
Liberalism has taken the place of Persecution.

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Originally Posted by graymonkey View Post
But if Jesus has not returned yet they are not in heaven.

Doesn't Jesus have to return first before anyone can be in heaven?
see the verses I supplied in original post
Resurrected bodies await the meeting of the Lord in the air (1 Thess. 4:13-18), but the souls of departed Christians are present with the Lord.

Again Paul says, "If I am to go on living in the body, this will mean fruitful labor for me. Yet what shall I choose? I do not know! I am torn between the two: I desire to depart and be with Christ, which is better by far; but it is more necessary that I will remain, ...(Phil. 1:22-26).

In Christ,
Tracey
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  #8  
Unread 6th September 2010, 05:42 PM
Liberalism has taken the place of Persecution.

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I was under the impression this forum was for Christians only.

In Christ,
Tracey

From God vs. the Bible. Author: John Armstrong.

9. Do Deists believe in a divine Jesus?

No. Historical writings by famous Deists have spoken of the "moral character" of Jesus as if he were an idealistic human being around whom fantastic myths were built (most of them suspiciously similar to pagan analogs that predated Christianity).
Variant Question: Is it possible to be a Christian Deist?
No. Neither is it possible to be a Muslim Deist or otherwise mix Deism with any brand of Theism. Theism demands faith in the "truth" of scriptures and religious teachings. Deism emphasizes understanding God through reason and critical thinking. Faith is the suppression of reason and critical thinking. Despite their agreement on the existence of God, Theism and Deism are incompatible world-views.
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  #9  
Unread 6th September 2010, 05:44 PM
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Originally Posted by Tractor1 View Post
Resurrected bodies await the meeting of the Lord in the air (1 Thess. 4:13-18), but the souls of departed Christians are present with the Lord.

Again Paul says, "If I am to go on living in the body, this will mean fruitful labor for me. Yet what shall I choose? I do not know! I am torn between the two: I desire to depart and be with Christ, which is better by far; but it is more necessary that I will remain, ...(Phil. 1:22-26).

In Christ,
Tracey
The verse says "no one has ascended into heaven." That means no soul/body. Where from scripture can you show me where it says the souls of christians are in heaven before the return of Christ?
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  #10  
Unread 6th September 2010, 05:58 PM
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Originally Posted by Tractor1 View Post
Resurrected bodies await the meeting of the Lord in the air (1 Thess. 4:13-18), but the souls of departed Christians are present with the Lord.

Again Paul says, "If I am to go on living in the body, this will mean fruitful labor for me. Yet what shall I choose? I do not know! I am torn between the two: I desire to depart and be with Christ, which is better by far; but it is more necessary that I will remain, ...(Phil. 1:22-26).

In Christ,
Tracey
Hi Tracey,
This is a common mistake, but scripture is clear that there is no such thing as 'soul' surviving a dead body:

Judges 16:30
Numbers 23:10

What we as Christians should believe in is the resurrection of the dead, as that what was Paul was refering to, but in the meantime, he lies in the grave with his next waking momnet to be with Christ until the last day (john 5:28, 1 cor 15, Dan 12:2.)
__________________
Shalom


Mike King

"Each of us, a cell of awareness, imperfect and incomplete. Genetic blends with uncertain ends on a fortune hunt thats far too fleet.." Neil Peart, Rush.
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