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Bridge Builders A place of acceptance and fellowship for folks who are seeking to be that bridge between the Church and the Jewish Nation, or who may be seeking help in building a bridge within their own family , struggling to live between a chasm of two faiths.

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  #1  
Unread 23rd August 2010, 12:13 AM
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Messianic Judaism and the Trinity

In the name of our only One God, by the Father, the Son, and the Holy Ghost, the Shoa has promoted the resurrection of the Church of Jerusalem (Jewish Christianity), the Church of Simon, James, Mathew, Mark, and John.
The Messianic Jews have two important missions, the one to make known Yeshua the Mashiyach among their fellow Jews. The second, not less important, is to be witness to the Pauline Church about the Jewish roots of Christianity and to increase the awareness to that topic in mainstream Christianity.
I am saddened that among Messianic Jews, that the Trinity is still an issue of division. Trinity is just a Greek label of what Yeshua has linked in the same sentence: Go and make disciples of all nations, baptizing them in the name of the Father, the Son and of the Holy Spirit.(Mathews 28.19). Could someone helps us in giving an Hebrew label of this linkeage? Those can have only a very limited impact on the Pauline Church who holds to the non-Trinitiarian Modalist Monarchianism that the Father, the Son, and the Holy Ghost are mere manifestations of the same God. Or in other words, the Father is the Son, the Son is the Holy Ghost.
Could someone translate into Hebraic Father and Son in the formula of “in the Name of the only One Elohim, by the Father, the Son, and the Ruach haKodesh ?
Let us pray Adonai that He leads us on the right path.
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  #2  
Unread 23rd August 2010, 04:41 AM
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Originally Posted by janwoG View Post
Could someone translate into Hebraic Father and Son in the formula of “in the Name of the only One Elohim, by the Father, the Son, and the Ruach haKodesh ?
Let us pray Adonai that He leads us on the right path.
There is a lot available for this kind of thing. The Catholics in particular are years ahead of everyone else on translating prayers, Bibles and liturgies into the vernacular for Jews and Israelis.

The baptismal formula could be said B'shem Ha'Av v'HaBen v'HaRuach HaKodesh

I don't think it's common to say more than that regarding God's Unity in that formula.

Of course, one's accent could transliterate it differently, but this would be pretty close to the mark.
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  #3  
Unread 23rd August 2010, 11:25 PM
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yeap good summary CM

what for you need to know it ,janwog? is it just for entertainement or deepening of worship ( God, naturally, understands you in any tongue) or where are you headed ,brother? If somewhere where everybody speaks hebrew only - hard to imagine such place in Israel, unless you aim for clinically orthodox neighborhoods, similar to infamous mea shearim , but then watch out what you do, or your problems wont be not limited to not knowing the language only
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  #4  
Unread 24th August 2010, 05:43 AM
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Messianic Judaism and the Trinity

To Desert Rose:
I am surprised to get this kind of reaction in this forum. However, I thank you for your post since I have the opportunity to clarify this issue. The Netzarim are a messianic group who are adept of Jesus but reject the Trinity as Greek Pagan Construct. With regard to Israel, they have a strategic advantage over the Trinitarian Messianic. Netzarim are recognized by the Rabbinate of Jerusalem as Jews and entitled to Aliyah (return to Israel). The Trinitarian Messianic are considered as Christian Polytheists and are denied to settle in Israel. Trinity is the Latin translation of a Greek label of the saying of Jesus.(Mathews 28.19) I try to describe how the Trinity functions. God Father has deep its roots in the Godly Ground (Godhead), the Absolute and Eternal Isness of God’s essence, Jewish mystics call En Sof. En Sof confers the Father His Divinity, Who in turn transfers His Divinity by expressing His Word (the Son) and breathing out His Spirit, the Holy Ghost, Who are the three Divine Persons of One Essence En Sof. Although, the Trinity is uncomfortable for a Monotheistic Religion, it corresponds to a reality of the Holy Writ
Modalism would be even more uncomfortable. Take the following of the Gospel: And when Jesus had been baptized,…, suddenly he saw the Spirit of God , descending like a dove and alighting Him. And a voice from heaven said, this is my Son, the Beloved, with Whom I am well pleased. (Mathew, 3.16-17) In a modalism interpretation, Yahweh took the aspect of a dove, then took possession of Jesus on Earth. Since the full of Yahweh was with Jesus on the earth, whose voice spoke in the Heaven? Certainly not En Sof, since It is not a person but a State of Absolute Isness. To replace Trinity by a Hebraic concept describing the same reality would ease the discussion, since Messianic Jews estimate that there are too much Greek Pagan philosophy and customs mixed with Christian Doctrine in the Pauline Church. An instructive reading about this issue is the Book of the Netzarim Rabbi Carmen Walker, “Should Christians be Torah Observant?, although I do not share Her Modalism. With regard to the importance of the Hebraic language, I recommend you to see the website of Trinitarian Conservative, if not Orthodox) Messianic Jews “Messianic Bureau International” to paste in Google search.
I pray that the Holy Ghost leads us Desert Rose and JanwoG on the right path.
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  #5  
Unread 26th August 2010, 10:43 AM
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To Desert Rose:
I am surprised to get this kind of reaction in this forum.
what of all a sudden ? I meant no disrespect, dear. You asked translation, i asked what in particular do you need it for? You can have the entire bible in translated, transliterated, etc. blue red or polka dotted form if needed. resources are plentiful online.

The Netzarim are a messianic group who are adept of Jesus but reject the Trinity as Greek Pagan Construct. With regard to Israel, they have a strategic advantage over the Trinitarian Messianic. Netzarim are recognized by the Rabbinate of Jerusalem as Jews and entitled to Aliyah (return to Israel).
THat i find extremely hard to believe. Unless they are tricksters who found some loopholes, and go as relatives of people of Jewishs descent there is NO WAY rabbinut would allow a christian of any stripe into the land legally under aliya rules
Check the Law of return, it hasnt been revised

trinitarian or not, if Yeshua is God, resurrected Messiah to them, then no, they are not considered Jews and not allowed. unless they are not believers in the highlighted...


The Trinitarian Messianic are considered as Christian Polytheists and are denied to settle in Israel.

Poly, mono or anything CHRISTIAN in the description are not allowed, but denied

If you confident you know something i dont, give me links. But I checked it, strange......

Last edited by Desert Rose; 26th August 2010 at 07:08 PM.
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  #6  
Unread 26th August 2010, 02:24 PM
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I agree with you Desert Rose.

Sounds like another verse of the same song that has been sung for centuries - how to discredit the deity of Yeshua.
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  #7  
Unread 27th August 2010, 11:54 AM
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thats what it was? i felt that something smells fishy in the whole deal
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Unread 10th September 2010, 04:17 AM
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They didn't happen to mention where they are allowed to Aliyah too in Israel did they?
THat i find extremely hard to believe. Unless they are tricksters who found some loopholes, and go as relatives of people of Jewishs descent there is NO WAY rabbinut would allow a christian of any stripe into the land legally under aliya rules
Check the Law of return, it hasnt been revised
No disception, Rabbis are allowing Catholic Jews back in Israel. They have a whole retraining school for Jews who had their Judaism stripped away from them by force in the Spanishi inquisition. A name on the list and one remnant tradition is all it takes as far as I can tell. They are kept in a separate area and retrained. At present they are not made to renounce Christ because of the trauma they endured.
They live in a kind of buffer zone from what I can tell.

We have a friend helping educate the Spanish Jews and send them back to Israel. He figures if they get enough irate spanish guys getting bombed they may just fight back and take back te Golan Heights...

bananna
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Unread 20th September 2010, 04:13 PM
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hi, i hope i'm not intruding...
i'm not jewish. actually, i'm from tanzania - but the point is, i love israel and its people. i believe firmly in the God of Abraham, Isaac and Jacob - and Elijah, and i believe that Jesus is the Son of the Father, and that together with the Holy Spirit, they are the one true God. i'm trying 2 read the bible in chronological order 2 get more of an overview of the history of the israelites, but there are so many differing versions/points of view of the order in which the books were written, so not much fulfilment at the moment. if any1 cd shed some light on the matter, it wd be great
don't know u, but love u guys. Shalom xx
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Unread 6th October 2010, 06:02 AM
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Shalom to all,
First of all I want you to know that this post in no way is meant to be devisive but I thought it worth sharing concerning the passage of Matthew 28:19.
(Right now I can't say one way or the other what my views are on the subject, whether I lean toward trinitarian or God as Abba, God as the Son, and God as the Holy Spirit. Ketuvei HaShelichim tends to uphold the trinitarian view....?? So, I'm not dogmatic either way, still open to the Spirit's revelation.)
I'm only sharing one of about 20 different statements concerning baptizing in the Name of "the Father, the Son, and the Holy Spirit (or Ghost as some versions use).

"The Demonstratio Evangelica" by Eusebius:

Eusebius was the Church historian and Bishop of Caesarea. On page 152 Eusebius quotes the early book of Matthew that he had in his library in Caesarea. According to this eyewitness of an unaltered Book of Matthew that could have been the original book or the first copy of the original of Matthew. Eusebius informs us of Jesus' actual words to his disciples in the original text of Matthew 28:19: "With one word and voice He said to His disciples: "Go, and make disciples of all nations in My Name, teaching them to observe all things whatsover I have commanded you." That "Name" is Jesus.

If you are interested in reading more on this subject, I'll be happy to share. I just think it's important to know when translators choose to take it on themselves to add their interpretations into the text proper (such as Mark 7:19, "Thus Jesus declard that all foods are clean," which, at least, is noted that this is an addition not found in the earlier texts).
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