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  #1  
Unread 16th August 2010, 08:08 PM
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The Carmelite Nuns and Auschwitz

The tension in NYC over the Muslims attempt to build a Mosque near the sacred ground of ground zero has split our country in a very profound way.

I was reading the Wall street journal, and there was an article stating , "Maybe there is another way"

In the 1980s, Carmelite nuns moved into an abandoned building on the edge of the former Nazi death camp to pray for the souls taken there. As with the dispute over the mosque near Ground Zero, the convent's presence escalated into a clash not only between different faiths but between competing historical narratives. As with today's clash too, it seemed intractable until the Polish pope stepped in.
...So what did Pope John Paul II do? He waited, and he counseled. And when he saw that the nuns were not budging—and that their presence was doing more harm than good—he asked the Carmelites to move. He acknowledged that his letter would probably be a trial to each of the sisters, but asked them to accept it while continuing to pursue their mission in that same city at another convent that had been built for them.

Let's remember what this means. By their own lights, the nuns believed they were doing only good. They may have had a legal title to be where they were. And it is likely that they never would have been forced to move by local authorities had they insisted on staying.
The Nuns intentions were good, the intentions of the murky figures behind the mosque might not be as benevolent as those of the Carmelite Nuns.

But the point is, two very similar standofffs, and two very different responses. The Catholic church erred on the side of sensitivity, and doing what Christ would have us do.
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  #2  
Unread 16th August 2010, 08:15 PM
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Hmmm, interesting event
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Unread 16th August 2010, 08:21 PM
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Originally Posted by Eucharisted View Post
Hmmm, interesting event
It happened, and JP II intervened. The Nuns intentions were good intentions. But JP II saw the big picture.

I think the Muslims see the big picture, but their intentions are malevolent.
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  #4  
Unread 16th August 2010, 08:41 PM
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Originally Posted by eastcoast_bsc View Post
The tension in NYC over the Muslims attempt to build a Mosque near the sacred ground of ground zero has split our country in a very profound way.

I was reading the Wall street journal, and there was an article stating , "Maybe there is another way"





The Nuns intentions were good, the intentions of the murky figures behind the mosque might not be as benevolent as those of the Carmelite Nuns.

But the point is, two very similar standofffs, and two very different responses. The Catholic church erred on the side of sensitivity, and doing what Christ would have us do.
I'm sorry, it not quite clear.

Are you comparing the Muslims to Nazi's ?

or

The Tower's site to Auschwitz ?

or

what,

exact ?
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Unread 16th August 2010, 08:42 PM
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Originally Posted by eastcoast_bsc View Post
It happened, and JP II intervened. The Nuns intentions were good intentions. But JP II saw the big picture.

I think the Muslims see the big picture, but their intentions are malevolent.
Pray for 'em
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  #6  
Unread 16th August 2010, 09:25 PM
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Originally Posted by Cosmic Charlie View Post
I'm sorry, it not quite clear.

Are you comparing the Muslims to Nazi's ?

or

The Tower's site to Auschwitz ?

or

what,

exact ?

Maybe your still at happy hour, so I will explain.

We have two similar incidents, where the building of a place of Worship was deemed insensitive, due to the nature of the relation of said place of worship, and what is considered by the local populace as sacred ground.

The Nuns built a Monastery near Auschwitz, the Muslims a Mosque near ground zero.


JP II handled it this way, he wrote a letter to the Nuns:

So what did Pope John Paul II do? He waited, and he counseled. And when he saw that the nuns were not budging—and that their presence was doing more harm than good—he asked the Carmelites to move. He acknowledged that his letter would probably be a trial to each of the sisters, but asked them to accept it while continuing to pursue their mission in that same city at another convent that had been built for them.
Now this response is in direct contrast to the response of the Islamic community. They are adamant that their Mosque will be built.


JP II did what Christ would do, he considered the feelings of those who lost so much at Auschwitz Concentration camp.

The Imam has disregarded the feelings of the vast majority of those who lost so much, at the hands of Islamic terrorist at ground zero.
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Unread 16th August 2010, 11:53 PM
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When we tell Muslims they can't build (or even shouldn't) build a Mosque because of the 9/11 attacks, the terrorists win. They succeed in destrying a piece of America, a piece far more important than two giant office buildings. Being offended by this Mosque is a choice. Whether the Mosque's proponents want to offend you or want to be left alone to worship quietly in peace doesn't really matter (and I confess I have no idea what their goal with this Mosque is - I also don;'really care) - the best response is to choose to not let it bother you and pray for them.

Let's not forget, there are people in this world who, for good reason, would be offended at the comparison of 9/11 to the events that took place at Auschwitz. They are not comparable in scale or goal.
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Unread 17th August 2010, 09:15 AM
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Originally Posted by eastcoast_bsc View Post
The tension in NYC over the Muslims attempt to build a Mosque near the sacred ground of ground zero has split our country in a very profound way.

I was reading the Wall street journal, and there was an article stating , "Maybe there is another way"








The Nuns intentions were good, the intentions of the murky figures behind the mosque might not be as benevolent as those of the Carmelite Nuns.

But the point is, two very similar standofffs, and two very different responses. The Catholic church erred on the side of sensitivity, and doing what Christ would have us do.


I really don't expect and would be greatly surprised if the Muslims had an ounce of sensitivity about this. I spect they don't and won't and my opinion of them collectively will go down. But conversely would rise if they did really care and did the right thing.

Anyhow's great post.
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Unread 17th August 2010, 09:31 AM
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Originally Posted by eastcoast_bsc View Post
Maybe your still at happy hour, so I will explain.
Wereever I am, its always happy hour

(Sometimes it even free taco bar Tuesday on Wednesday's)


We have two similar incidents, where the building of a place of Worship was deemed insensitive, due to the nature of the relation of said place of worship, and what is considered by the local populace as sacred ground.
1) The local populace GRANDED THE ZONING CHANGE THAT ALLOWED THE PLACE OF WORSHIP TO BE BUILT.

Why do you want to overrule the local board ? Are you some sort of big goverment commie or something ?

2) There is nothing sacred about this area.

Don't beleive me ? Google map the the area and go to street level, within the same distance as this proposed Islamic Center there is (including but not complete list): A strip bar, an OTB parlor, 4 fast food joints and a bunch of empty buildings, most of which are crumbling.

3) Assuming your logic is used as simular situations then a fundemental Christian Chruch should not be build near the Atlanta Olympic ground becuase a fundementalist Christian bombed it during the Olympic games.

and

There should be no Catholic Chruches in Oklahoma City since a terrorist who happened to Catholic bombed a building there.

Are you prepared to let people tell you where you can and can't put a Catholic Chruch ?


The Nuns built a Monastery near Auschwitz, the Muslims a Mosque near ground zero.
Can you get any of these facts correct ? The Nun want to build the Convent (a Monastery is for men) ON THE GROUNDS OF AUSCHWITZ, they moved it close to Auschwitz.

Sort of takes the air out of the above point, it seems to me.


The Imam has disregarded the feelings of the vast majority of those who lost so much, at the hands of Islamic terrorist at ground zero.
The Imam asked for an got permission from the local elected city board.

That should be the only feeling he needed to take into consideration.

The New York goverment said they could use the building.

Again,

Why do you want to overrule the local goverment ?

Unless you area a big Federal goverment, Big Brother type of person.
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Unread 17th August 2010, 09:45 AM
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What if they decided to build a German Cultural Center at Auschwitz,...
do you think people would have a problem with that?

Jim
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