Why can't God send us all to Heaven?

elman · #21 6th August 2010, 12:55 PM

Originally Posted by martymonster

You are right to question this.

God doesn't burn anyone in Hell.
for starters He didn't make a place called Hell to burn people in in the first place.

The place that He prepared for the Devil and His messengers is the lake of fire not Hell.

The lake of fire is the day of judgment where everyone is relieved of the carnal mindedness.
In other words, it's where a flesh is destroyed.

This lake of fire is made up of the elect who are relatively
few in number who's great honor it is to judge the world and bring the second fruits into the Kingdom.

Rom 8:17 And if children, then heirs; heirs of God, and joint-heirs with Christ; if so be that we suffer with him, that we may be also glorified together.
Rom 8:18 For I reckon that the sufferings of this present time are not worthy to be compared with the glory which shall be revealed in us.
Rom 8:19 For the earnest expectation of the creature waiteth for the manifestation of the sons of God.
Rom 8:20 For the creature was made subject to vanity, not willingly, but by reason of him who hath subjected the same in hope,
Rom 8:21 Because the creature itself also shall be delivered from the bondage of corruption into the glorious liberty of the children of God.
Rom 8:22 For we know that the whole creation groaneth and travaileth in pain together until now.
Rom 8:23 And not only they, but ourselves also, which have the firstfruits of the Spirit, even we ourselves groan within ourselves, waiting for the adoption, to wit, the redemption of our body.

Now think, if our loving heavenly Father is going to burn most of the worlds population in a pit of fire for all eternity then the above verse doesn't make any sense.

If only the first fruits what about the second fruits?

Why is the creation groaning to see the sons of God revealed?

How is it the creation will be delivered from the bondage of corruption if the burning in Hellfire for all eternity?

The lake of fire is a symbol for those who are going to judge the world with Christ.

1Co 6:2 Do ye not know that the saints shall judge the world? and if the world shall be judged by you, are ye unworthy to judge the smallest matters?
1Co 6:3 Know ye not that we shall judge angels? how much more things that pertain to this life?

So why are they called the lake of fire then?

They are the lake because they are so few compared to the vast sea of humanity and because God is a consuming fire and His saints are consumed by Him and that fire comes out of their mouths and devours the enemies of God.

Will they be the enemies of God forever in a pit of fire?

1Jn 2:1 My little children, these things write I unto you, that ye sin not. And if any man sin, we have an advocate with the Father, Jesus Christ the righteous:
1Jn 2:2 And he is the propitiation for our sins: and not for ours only, but also for the sins of the whole world.

Anyway I hope I have given you enough to think about.
You should go and read the scriptures and see if what I have said makes anymore sense it the light of them.

PS.

If God loses His second fruits does that mean that He has near total crop failure?

I believe the lake of fire is the second death. It is not life in pain. I agree there is no hell and no suffering after death. The consequences of failing to obey the law of love is death.

LBP · #22 6th August 2010, 12:57 PM

Originally Posted by Tavita

The hell that is preached these days is a pagan concept.

If you believe Christ died for all, then all WILL BE (eventually) saved... He reconciled the whole world, not just a few... that means EVERYTHING (which includes everyone).

I absolutely agree with this, Tavita. Unfortunately, it's not a position that the biblical literalists are ever going to accept. I've been associated with fundamentalist organizations and churches, and it seems pretty clear to me that the prospect of a fair proportion of humanity not making it into heaven is a source of secret satisfaction despite all the wailing and moaning about loving others and saving the lost. My feeling is that their God is just way too small -- WAY too small.

elman · #23 6th August 2010, 01:06 PM

Originally Posted by LBP

I absolutely agree with this, Tavita. Unfortunately, it's not a position that the biblical literalists are ever going to accept. I've been associated with fundamentalist organizations and churches, and it seems pretty clear to me that the prospect of a fair proportion of humanity not making it into heaven is a source of secret satisfaction despite all the wailing and moaning about loving others and saving the lost. My feeling is that their God is just way too small -- WAY too small.

I am not threatened by this theology but why all the pain and suffering in this world if everyone is going to go to eternal life of bliss--What was the point? If there are no consequences to evil and sin and no differences in consequences with loving action why did God not just skip this physical life step?

Yarddog · #24 6th August 2010, 01:15 PM

Originally Posted by Capuano231

I'm a Christian but this has bothered me all my life. If God loves us all and wants us all to go to Heaven and to be saved, and if He is all powerful why did he make Hell? Why did he have to make his son suffer?

Don't get offended by this question. I don't know how else to put it into words. Thanks

Who really knows what God truly has planned?

elman · #25 6th August 2010, 01:30 PM

Originally Posted by ctleff

Yes it makes you wonder doesn't it, what is this life for? are only Christians going to heaven? if so what about all of the other religions? what will happen to them?

I think our definition of Christian is too narrow. It should perhaps be defined as sheep are defined in Matt 25:31 and following. If God saves people who do not understand that loving others is loving Him, perhaps the other religions are alright--if they are loving.

martymonster · #26 6th August 2010, 05:03 PM

Originally Posted by texastig

What about the Rich man and Lazarus?

Don't forget it's for all of those whose names are not found in the book of life.

Where is that in the Bible?

Where is that in the Bible?

You know what?

I think you ask but you not really interested in finding out so I'm not going to answer all you questions and besides, I was only answering someones question because their conscience was bothering them.

I'm not going to turn this into a debate on the existence of Hell.

Here's a verse for you though.

Eze 16:55 When thy sisters, Sodom and her daughters, shall return to their former estate, and Samaria and her daughters shall return to their former estate, then thou and thy daughters shall return to your former estate.

jkryle · #27 6th August 2010, 11:57 PM

Originally Posted by martymonster

You know what?

I think you ask but you not really interested in finding out so I'm not going to answer all you questions and besides, I was only answering someones question because their conscience was bothering them.

I'm not going to turn this into a debate on the existence of Hell.

Here's a verse for you though.

Eze 16:55 When thy sisters, Sodom and her daughters, shall return to their former estate, and Samaria and her daughters shall return to their former estate, then thou and thy daughters shall return to your former estate.

Your the one who said there's no Hell but Jesus says differently.
I think he asked you a legitimate question and your ignoring it because what your saying isn't scriptural.

Matthew 25:41
Depart from Me, ye cursed, into everlasting fire, prepared for the devil and his angels.

Mark 9:43-44
And if thy hand offend thee, cut it off: it is better for thee to enter into life maimed, than having two hands to go into hell, into the fire that never shall be quenched:
Where their worm dieth not, and the fire is not quenched.

Matthew 8:11-12
Many shall come from the east and the west, and shall sit down with Abraham, and Isaac, and Jacob, in the kingdom of heaven: but the children of the kingdom shall be cast out into outer darkness: there shall be weeping and gnashing of teeth.

Matthew 13:41-42
The Son of man shall send forth his angels, and they shall gather out of his kingdom all things that offend, and them which do iniquity; and shall cast them into a furnace of fire: there shall be wailing and gnashing of teeth.

Matthew 13:49-50
So shall it be at the end of the world: the angels shall come forth, and sever the wicked from among the just, and shall cast them into the furnace of fire: there shall be wailing and gnashing of teeth.

Revelation 21:8
But the fearful, and unbelieving, and the abominable, and murderers, and whoremongers, and sorcerers, and idolaters, and all liars, shall have their part in the lake which burneth with fire and brimstone: which is the second death.

Psalms 9:17
The wicked shall be turned into hell, and all the nations that forget God.

1 Corinthians 6:9-10
Know ye not that the unrighteous shall not inherit the kingdom of God? Be not deceived: neither fornicators, nor idolaters, nor adulterers, nor effeminate, nor abusers of themselves with mankind, nor thieves, nor covetous, nor drunkards, nor revilers, nor extortioners, shall inherit the kingdom of God.

Revelation 14:11
And the smoke of their torment ascendeth up for ever and ever; and they have no rest day nor night, who worship the beast and his image, and whosoever receiveth the mark of his name.

Luke 12:4-5
And I say unto you my friends, Be not afraid of them that kill the body, and after that have no more that they can do. But I will forewarn you whom ye shall fear: Fear him, which after he hath killed hath power to cast into hell; yea, I say unto you, Fear him.

Matthew 10:28
And fear not them which kill the body, but are not able to kill the soul: but rather fear him which is able to destroy both soul and body in hell.

beforHim · #28 7th August 2010, 12:58 AM

Too much has been said already for me to come in and give my two cents. Thus, just want to say I agree totally with the common thread here: God doesn't send anyone to Hell, bvut people do choose to be with themselve forever and not with God.

Read "The Great Divorce" by C.S. Lewis. It'll show you what we're talking about. And
why did Jesus have to die? John Piper wrote a book called "50 Reason why Jesus came to Die". I suggest getting ahold of that book as well. "The Great Divorce" can be found at pretty much any local bookstore, and is really cheap. "50 reasons. . .", though, I've never seen at a bookstore. For both of them, I'd suggest Amazon, and I bet you could get them both (shipping included) for under $10.

If you do want to read them but don't want to spend the money- I've sent books to other people, one book I sent to a guy on these forums. PM me and I'll hook you up.

Preecher · #29 7th August 2010, 01:37 AM

Originally Posted by Tavita

The hell that is preached these days is a pagan concept.

Was Jesus a pagan? He preached Hell fire.

Mark 9:43-48 (KJV)
43 And if thy hand offend thee, cut it off: it is better for thee to enter into life maimed, than having two hands to go into hell, into the fire that never shall be quenched:
44 Where their worm dieth not, and the fire is not quenched.
45 And if thy foot offend thee, cut it off: it is better for thee to enter halt into life, than having two feet to be cast into hell, into the fire that never shall be quenched:
46 Where their worm dieth not, and the fire is not quenched.
47 And if thine eye offend thee, pluck it out: it is better for thee to enter into the kingdom of God with one eye, than having two eyes to be cast into hell fire:
48 Where their worm dieth not, and the fire is not quenched.

xGodsGracex · #30 7th August 2010, 06:57 AM

^^ Lick them with the rod of correction!!