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5th August 2010, 01:16 PM
|  | Martyría, Diakonía, Koinōnía 47 
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Reps: 727,432,821,147,579,648 (power: 727,432,821,147,586) | | Originally Posted by Frogster So they condemn people right out of the church. Good stuff here, Froggy. New Reformation Press » The Gospel For Those Broken By The Church
__________________ Confessional Lutheran Christianity: Christ-centered, Cross-focused. Biblical, historic, traditional, creedal, confessional, liturgical, monergistic, sacramental, evangelical, catholic, orthodox Christianity. (All scripture quotes in my posts are from the Holy Bible English Standard Version (ESV) unless otherwise indicated.) Daily return to the waters of Holy Baptism that the old man might be drowned and die. Daily, for he is a good swimmer. To view links or images in signatures your post count must be 10 or greater. You currently have 0 posts.
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5th August 2010, 02:20 PM
| | Veteran 77  | | Join Date: 12th September 2005 Location: USA - North Carolina
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Reps: 216,364,754,962,762,272 (power: 216,364,754,962,772) | | Originally Posted by the.Sheepdog Then You have another one to work on Giver!
What does it take to be saved? I think the best answer to that question is the one the Lord gave in John 6:28-29. Then they asked him, “What must we do to do the works God requires?” Jesus answered, “The work of God is this: to believe in the one he has sent.”
Here was a perfect opportunity to list all the things we have to do to meet God’s requirements. Jesus could have rattled off the 10 commandments. He could have repeated the Sermon on the Mount. He could have listed any number of admonitions and restrictions necessary to achieve and maintain God’s expectations of us. But what did He say? “Believe in the one He has sent.” Period. It was a repeat of John 3:16, confirming that belief in the Son is the one and only requirement for salvation.
For God so loved the world that he gave his only begotten Son, that whoever believes in him shall not perish but have eternal life.
A few verses later in John 6 He said that this wasn’t just His idea, as if that wouldn’t be enough, but that His Father was in complete agreement. And not only would our belief suffice to provide us with eternal life, but that it was God’s will that Jesus lose none of those who believe. You and I have been known to disobey God’s will, but has Jesus ever done so? And isn’t He the one who’s been charged with the responsibility for keeping us? Let’s read it. “For I have come down from heaven not to do my will but to do the will of him who sent me. And this is the will of him who sent me, that I shall lose none of all that he has given me, but raise them up at the last day. For my Father’s will is that everyone who looks to the Son and believes in him shall have eternal life, and I will raise him up at the last day.” (John 6:38-40)
Just in case we missed this promise, Jesus made it again even more clearly in John 10:28-30. “I give them eternal life, and they shall never perish; no one can snatch them out of my hand. My Father, who has given them to me, is greater than all; no one can snatch them out of my Father’s hand. I and the Father are one.” The Father and the Son have both accepted responsibility for our security. Once we’re in Their hands, no one can get us away.
and I praise God that He knew I was never going to be good enough to do it on my own. He is all and I am His! When one says they believe in some one it is expected that they prove that he or she truly does, by doing as the person tells them to do. (Matthew 7:21) “It is not those who say to me, ‘Lord, Lord’, who will enter the kingdom of Heaven but the person who does the will of My Father in Heaven. “
__________________ No matter who tells you anything about God; you are to ask Jesus if it is right or wrong. A Spiritual Christian is a temple of God where no sin exists. | 
5th August 2010, 02:57 PM
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Reps: 1,142,816,201,199,099,136 (power: 1,142,816,201,199,110) | | | From now on, Righteousness is by faith without works of the law Originally Posted by Deut 5:29 You can't be of a different philosophy than God and have a good relationship with Him. A house divided can not stand.
When you reject God's laws, (i.e. His ways,) you reject Him.
God gives us His laws as an insite into His way of life. What a wonerful thing. Without them we are seperated from God.
It's factual that when you reject God's way of righteousness is when you reject Him. Did'nt the Jews strive to keep the law but rejected Jesus as Lord and Savior?
It's a fact that God required all of Israel to be baptised by John the baptist but that was not required in the law, (or was it?) Mat 3:13¶Then cometh Jesus from Galilee to Jordan unto John, to be baptized of him. Mat 3:14 But John forbad him, saying, I have need to be baptized of thee, and comest thou to me? Mat 3:15 And Jesus answering said unto him, Suffer [it to be so] now: for thus it becometh us to fulfil all righteousness. Then he suffered him. So it's important to understand what God requires of this generation rather than generations before the cross. It was a mistery to the 12 Apostles that Gentiles would be accepted without being proselyzed. Rom 3:21¶But now the righteousness of God without the law is manifested, being witnessed by the law and the prophets; Rom 3:26 To declare, [I say], at this time his righteousness: that he might be just, and the justifier of him which believeth in Jesus. Rom 3:27¶Where [is] boasting then? It is excluded. By what law? of works? Nay: but by the law of faith. Rom 3:28 Therefore we conclude that a man is justified by faith without the deeds of the law. SO the understanding taught to the Romans, Corinthians and Galatians that believer are not under the law, reflect how we're called to righteousness by faith.
Last edited by Cribstyl; 5th August 2010 at 03:21 PM.
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5th August 2010, 03:27 PM
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Reps: 996,768,363,525,666,816 (power: 996,768,363,525,684) | | Originally Posted by Deut 5:29 1 Jo. 2:4 He who says, “I know Him,” and does not keep His commandments, is a liar, and the truth is not in him. (also)
We have Christs commandments. Love God and Love your neighbor.. we also see that we have not our love but the love of God shed abroad in our hearts by the HS.. So not only does He saves us He filles us with His love.. So trying to live by the Law of Moses will get you no where other than judged by the law you so try to live by and fail on a daily basis.
__________________ To view links or images in signatures your post count must be 10 or greater. You currently have 0 posts. O Jehovah, our Lord, how majestic is Your name in all the earth; You have set Your glory above the heavens! Psa 8:2 Out of the mouth of babes and sucklings, You have ordained strength, because of the ones distressing You, to cause the enemy and the avenger to cease. Psa 8:3 When I look upon Your heavens, the work of Your fingers: the moon and the stars which You have fixed; Psa 8:4 what is man that You are mindful of him, and the son of man, that You visit him? Psa 8:5 For You have made him lack a little from God; and have crowned him with glory and honor. Psa 8:6 You made him rule over the works of Your hands; You have put all under his feet: Psa 8:7 all flocks and oxen, and also the animals of the field, Psa 8:8 the birds of the heavens, and the fish of the sea, all that pass through the sea. Psa 8:9 O Jehovah, our Lord, how majestic is Your name in all the earth! | 
5th August 2010, 03:30 PM
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Reps: 996,768,363,525,666,816 (power: 996,768,363,525,684) | | Originally Posted by Giver The first question it would be wise for you to ask yourself is: who taught you about God? Also you quoted a scripture that is not complete, and in this way teaches a lie. Here is what John said about one saying he or she had never sinned. (1 John 1: 8-10) If we claim to be without sin, we deceive ourselves and the truth is not in us. If we confess our sins, he is faithful and just and will forgive us our sins and purify us from all unrighteousness. If we claim we have not sinned, we make him out to be a liar and his word has no place in our lives.” KJV (1 John 1-8) “If we say that we have no sin, we deceive ourselves, and the truth is not in us. If we confess our sins, he is faithful and just to forgive us our sins, and to cleanse us from all unrighteousness. If we say that we have not sinned, we make him a liar, and his word is not in us. John makes it clear that if one says he or she has not sinned they are a liar. Also John says that if one has been cleansed from all unrighteousness; most people would believe unrighteousness is sin. If one is cleansed from sin then how could he or she be a liar if they admit to being sin free?
Because scripture shows us that if you say you have no sin you deceive yourself and the truth is not in you..
__________________ To view links or images in signatures your post count must be 10 or greater. You currently have 0 posts. O Jehovah, our Lord, how majestic is Your name in all the earth; You have set Your glory above the heavens! Psa 8:2 Out of the mouth of babes and sucklings, You have ordained strength, because of the ones distressing You, to cause the enemy and the avenger to cease. Psa 8:3 When I look upon Your heavens, the work of Your fingers: the moon and the stars which You have fixed; Psa 8:4 what is man that You are mindful of him, and the son of man, that You visit him? Psa 8:5 For You have made him lack a little from God; and have crowned him with glory and honor. Psa 8:6 You made him rule over the works of Your hands; You have put all under his feet: Psa 8:7 all flocks and oxen, and also the animals of the field, Psa 8:8 the birds of the heavens, and the fish of the sea, all that pass through the sea. Psa 8:9 O Jehovah, our Lord, how majestic is Your name in all the earth! | 
5th August 2010, 03:33 PM
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Reps: 996,768,363,525,666,816 (power: 996,768,363,525,684) | | Originally Posted by Giver What I am sharing is proving that the people who started once saved always saved teaching; totally have misunderstood Paul’s teachings. The Church before the Reformation knew that OSAS was hearsay. That teaching never was allowed by the true Christian Church.  Salvation is not of works friend. You cannot save yourself by doing works and you cannot keep yourself saved by doing works. Born again believers are Kept by Gods power. Not of their works
__________________ To view links or images in signatures your post count must be 10 or greater. You currently have 0 posts. O Jehovah, our Lord, how majestic is Your name in all the earth; You have set Your glory above the heavens! Psa 8:2 Out of the mouth of babes and sucklings, You have ordained strength, because of the ones distressing You, to cause the enemy and the avenger to cease. Psa 8:3 When I look upon Your heavens, the work of Your fingers: the moon and the stars which You have fixed; Psa 8:4 what is man that You are mindful of him, and the son of man, that You visit him? Psa 8:5 For You have made him lack a little from God; and have crowned him with glory and honor. Psa 8:6 You made him rule over the works of Your hands; You have put all under his feet: Psa 8:7 all flocks and oxen, and also the animals of the field, Psa 8:8 the birds of the heavens, and the fish of the sea, all that pass through the sea. Psa 8:9 O Jehovah, our Lord, how majestic is Your name in all the earth! | 
5th August 2010, 03:41 PM
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Reps: 1,142,816,201,199,099,136 (power: 1,142,816,201,199,110) | | Originally Posted by Deut 5:29 1 Jo. 2:4 He who says, “I know Him,” and does not keep His commandments, is a liar, and the truth is not in him. (also)
This is a word search scam that isolates text from John and 1John out of context.
Here are some isolated text that are abuse for words "commandments" as being the ten commandment, but actually meant, the words that Christ commanded to His followers.
The abused text is; Jhn 14:15¶If ye love me, keep my commandments.
The context proves that Christ was relating to His teaching not the law given to Moses. Jhn 14:24He that loveth me not keepeth not my sayings: and the word which ye hear is not mine, but the Father's which sent me. 1Jo 2:3¶And hereby we do know that we know him, if we keep his commandments. (Abused) 1Jo 2:4 He that saith, I know him, and keepeth not his commandments, is a liar, and the truth is not in him. (abused) 1Jo 2:5 But whoso keepeth his word, in him verily is the love of God perfected: hereby know we that we are in him. (proof text)
The truth they shamelessly hide is that His word were His commandments. | 
5th August 2010, 05:12 PM
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Reps: 120,851,430,819,729,680 (power: 0) | | I guess I'm abusing all of these too.  Mat. 5:18 For assuredly, I say to you, till heaven and earth pass away, one jot or one tittle will by no means pass from the law till all is fulfilled.
Mk. 7:8-9 For laying aside the commandment of God, you hold the tradition of men—the washing of pitchers and cups, and many other such things you do.” 9 He said to them, “All too well you reject the commandment of God, that you may keep your tradition. Mat. 19:16 Now behold, one came and said to Him, “Good Teacher, what good thing shall I do that I may have eternal life?” 17 So He said to him, “Why do you call Me good? No one is good but One, that is, God. But if you want to enter into life, keep the commandments.” 18 He said to Him, “Which ones?” Jesus said, “ ‘You shall not murder,’ ‘You shall not commit adultery,’ ‘You shall not steal,’ ‘You shall not bear false witness,’ 19 ‘Honor your father and your mother,’ and, ‘You shall love your neighbor as yourself. Jo. 12:49-50 For I have not spoken on My own authority; but the Father who sent Me gave Me a command, what I should say and what I should speak. 50 And I know that His command is everlasting life. Therefore, whatever I speak, just as the Father has told Me, so I speak.” Jo. 14:15, 21 “If you love Me, keep My commandments. 21 He who has My commandments and keeps them, it is he who loves Me. And he who loves Me will be loved by My Father, and I will love him and manifest Myself to him.” Ro. 7:12 Therefore the law is holy, and the commandment holy and just and good. Ro. 16:25-26 For the commandments, “You shall not commit adultery,” “You shall not murder,” “You shall not steal,” “You shall not bear false witness,”“You shall not covet,” and if there is any other commandment, are all summed up in this saying, namely, “You shall love your neighbor as yourself.” 1 Cor. 7:19 Circumcision is nothing and uncircumcision is nothing, but keeping the commandments of God is what matters. 1 Cor. 14:37 If anyone thinks himself to be a prophet or spiritual, let him acknowledge that the things which I write to you are the commandments of the Lord. Eph. 6:1-2 Children, obey your parents in the Lord, for this is right. 2 “Honor your father and mother,” which is the first commandment with promise: 3 “that it may be well with you and you may live long on the earth.” 1 Jo. 2:3-4, 7 Now by this we know that we know Him, if we keep His commandments. 4 He who says, “I know Him,” and does not keep His commandments, is a liar, and the truth is not in him. 7 Brethren, I write no new commandment to you, but an old commandment which you have had from the beginning. The old commandment is the word which you heard from the beginning. 1 Jo. 3:22. 24 And whatever we ask we receive from Him, because we keep His commandments and do those things that are pleasing in His sight. 24 Now he who keeps His commandments abides in Him, and He in him. And by this we know that He abides in us, by the Spirit whom He has given us. 1 Jo. 5:2-3 By this we know that we love the children of God, when we love God and keep His commandments. 3 For this is the love of God, that we keep His commandments. And His commandments are not burdensome. 2 Jo. 1:4-6 I rejoiced greatly that I have found some of your children walking in truth, as we received commandment from the Father. 5 And now I plead with you, lady, not as though I wrote a new commandment to you, but that which we have had from the beginning: that we love one another. 6 This is love, that we walk according to His commandments. This is the commandment, that as you have heard from the beginning, you should walk in it. Rev. 12:17 And the dragon was enraged with the woman, and he went to make war with the rest of her offspring, who keep the commandments of God and have the testimony of Jesus Christ. Rev. 14:12 Here is the patience of the saints; here are those who keep the commandments of God and the faith of Jesus. Rev. 22:14 Blessed are those who do His commandments, that they may have the right to the tree of life, and may enter through the gates into the city. | 
5th August 2010, 05:44 PM
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Reps: 1,142,816,201,199,099,136 (power: 1,142,816,201,199,110) | | Originally Posted by Deut 5:29 I guess I'm abusing all of these too. Mat. 5:18 For assuredly, I say to you, till heaven and earth pass away, one jot or one tittle will by no means pass from the law till all is fulfilled. Yes you are, because the "law" "torah " Books of Moses" ...The context of the books spoke of change...but your commentary focuses solely on the 10.com. Rom 3:21But now the righteousness of God without the law is manifested, being witnessed by the law and the prophets; Mk. 7:8-9 For laying aside the commandment of God, you hold the tradition of men—the washing of pitchers and cups, and many other such things you do.” 9 He said to them, “All too well you reject the commandment of God, that you may keep your tradition.
These text dated before Christ died spoke to those under the law having to keep the law. Mat. 19:16 Now behold, one came and said to Him, “Good Teacher, what good thing shall I do that I may have eternal life?” 17 So He said to him, “Why do you call Me good? No one is good but One, that is, God. But if you want to enter into life, keep the commandments.” 18 He said to Him, “Which ones?” Jesus said, “ ‘You shall not murder,’ ‘You shall not commit adultery,’ ‘You shall not steal,’ ‘You shall not bear false witness,’ 19 ‘Honor your father and your mother,’ and, ‘You shall love your neighbor as yourself. [/quote] predates the cross, the law was in force. Jo. 12:49-50 For I have not spoken on My own authority; but the Father who sent Me gave Me a command, what I should say and what I should speak. 50 And I know that His command is everlasting life. Therefore, whatever I speak, just as the Father has told Me, so I speak.” ???? Jo. 14:15, 21 “If you love Me, keep My commandments. 21 He who has My commandments and keeps them, it is he who loves Me. And he who loves Me will be loved by My Father, and I will love him and manifest Myself to him.” Scam when comments mislead Ro. 7:12 Therefore the law is holy, and the commandment holy and just and good. Isolated scam....Paul is teaching that the law is good, perfect and Holy but we're divorced from it. Ro. 16:25-26 For the commandments, “You shall not commit adultery,” “You shall not murder,” “You shall not steal,” “You shall not bear false witness,”“You shall not covet,” and if there is any other commandment, are all summed up in this saying, namely, “You shall love your neighbor as yourself.”
Noone said the commandments does not exist, the point is that they're well reprensented by love and we're judge by faith not the law. 1 Cor. 7:19 Circumcision is nothing and uncircumcision is nothing, but keeping the commandments of God is what matters.
Dont get twisted, the law says circumcision is the beginning of observing the law. It is understood that the word commands is more appropriate to determine what Paul is saying. 1 Cor. 14:37 If anyone thinks himself to be a prophet or spiritual, let him acknowledge that the things which I write to you are the commandments of the Lord.
same scam Eph. 6:1-2 Children, obey your parents in the Lord, for this is right. 2 “Honor your father and mother,” which is the first commandment with promise: 3 “that it may be well with you and you may live long on the earth.”
The law lives, but we're not under the law 1 Jo. 2:3-4, 7 Now by this we know that we know Him, if we keep His commandments. 4 He who says, “I know Him,” and does not keep His commandments, is a liar, and the truth is not in him. 7 Brethren, I write no new commandment to you, but an old commandment which you have had from the beginning. The old commandment is the word which you heard from the beginning.
Not the ten.com 1 Jo. 3:22. 24 And whatever we ask we receive from Him, because we keep His commandments and do those things that are pleasing in His sight. 24 Now he who keeps His commandments abides in Him, and He in him. And by this we know that He abides in us, by the Spirit whom He has given us. 1 Jo. 5:2-3 By this we know that we love the children of God, when we love God and keep His commandments. 3 For this is the love of God, that we keep His commandments. And His commandments are not burdensome. 2 Jo. 1:4-6 I rejoiced greatly that I have found some of your children walking in truth, as we received commandment from the Father. 5 And now I plead with you, lady, not as though I wrote a new commandment to you, but that which we have had from the beginning: that we love one another. 6 This is love, that we walk according to His commandments. This is the commandment, that as you have heard from the beginning, you should walk in it. Rev. 12:17 And the dragon was enraged with the woman, and he went to make war with the rest of her offspring, who keep the commandments of God and have the testimony of Jesus Christ. Rev. 14:12 Here is the patience of the saints; here are those who keep the commandments of God and the faith of Jesus. Rev. 22:14 Blessed are those who do His commandments, that they may have the right to the tree of life, and may enter through the gates into the city.
Nice try but it's an obvious scam abusing the words, commandments, and law without the context.
Last edited by Cribstyl; 6th August 2010 at 12:38 PM.
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5th August 2010, 06:02 PM
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Reps: 328,162,132,745,912,448 (power: 328,162,132,745,921) | | Originally Posted by Deut 5:29 You can't be of a different philosophy than God and have a good relationship with Him. A house divided can not stand.
When you reject God's laws, (i.e. His ways,) you reject Him.
God gives us His laws as an insite into His way of life. What a wonerful thing. Without them we are seperated from God.
Interesting post. I agree with your first two statements.
But what do you mean reject God's laws? What laws are you talking about? Having read past posts from you I am guessing that you mean the ten commandments. Why don't you say exactly what laws you are talking about? The NT laws or teaching about law is contradictory to the Torah. They can not be all the same laws. It takes no faith to obey the ten commandments. Just obedience. Believing that you obey them is not the same as obeying them. Violating (sinning) them is not obeying them either. What active laws of God are we rejecting? The Torah is not active in a Christians life. We live in the NC.
If you believe that the ten commandments are Jesus' commandments, why don't you say Jesus' law instead of God;s law? To me you are interchanging meaning and words for convience sake to deceive.
Without what (laws) are we seperated from God by? Are you saying that the Apostles Peter and Paul are living in sin? Peter was rebuked by Paul for living as a gentile and seperating from them when the Jewish Christian brethern came from Jerusalem. The emotional Peter was also a hypocrite.
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