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  #11  
Unread 30th July 2010, 04:38 PM
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As I am not a Protestant, I do not believe in "sola scriptura" or that the Bible completely explains itself. I do believe that the Bible is God's word, but do not believe it has everything we need. Therefore, it's not at all a problem to me that the Bible does not specify what marriage is and how it is done, or does not specify that masturbation is a sin, or does not provide clear guidance about the numerous theological controversies of the first few centuries whose answers we now all take for granted (viz: the Trinity, the two natures of Christ).

Back to the subject. Matthew 5:27-30. Given the content of 28 and 29, it would require quite an effort to argue that masturbation is not an exercise of the lust Christ is condemning. I really do not know what to say to somebody who would agree that looking on a women with lust is akin to adultery but deny that stimulating your genitals until orgasm is a sinful exercise of that lust. There is such a thing as wilful ignorance. The passage does not explicitly say that masturbation is wrong. If he can imagine a world where looking at a woman with lust is wrong but beating off to her isn't, more power to him.
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  #12  
Unread 30th July 2010, 08:39 PM
More Ruth & a mp; amp; amp; amp; amp; amp; amp; amp; gt; Less Jezebel

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The Bible is fairly specific about not sleeping with a parent or animals or those of the same gender, but sort of silent on masturbation specifically. The story often sited against it about the man spilling his 'seed' on the ground is more about rebellion than lust, almost.

Judah got a wife for Er, his firstborn, and her name was Tamar. But Er, Judah's firstborn, was wicked in the LORD's sight; so the LORD put him to death. Then Judah said to Onan, "Lie with your brother's wife and fulfill your duty to her as a brother-in-law to produce offspring for your brother." But Onan knew that the offspring would not be his; so whenever he lay with his brother's wife, he spilled his semen on the ground to keep from producing offspring for his brother. What he did was wicked in the LORD's sight; so he put him to death also. - Genesis 38:6-10 [NIV]


Basically, he'd been told to carry on his brother's line with his wife, but instead of doing as he was told, he got all of the pleasure without the reward.

But lust is a pretty big part of masturbation (and others have already written down the verse for you). Actually, I'd say it's most of masturbation... You could, theoretically, try to do so without lust (as in, chemical arousal based on literally nothing but chemicals), you can also make sparks over dry grass, but just don't be surprised when a fire gets lit.

The Bible is the word of God, but I don't believe He ever quit speaking to us. I would definitely pray (maybe even with him) over it.

Originally Posted by Ruby Beads View Post
Also, how far can an unmarried Christian couple go when it comes to being physical with each other? Snuggling? Spooning (with clothes on of course)? Or just arms draped around one another?
It's different for different people, I think. Some people don't kiss or hug or hold hands until they get married and others are a bit more liberal with showing physical affection before marriage. Older movies had specific guidelines they followed when it came to romantic scenes - no kiss longer than four seconds, three feet always on the ground, and so on. I've heard it preached that you shouldn't kiss before marriage because you could be kissing someone else's husband or wife. I think it's a serious conversation the two of you should talk about (and any other courting/dating couple).

We do hold hands, hug and kiss, but when we kiss it's not generally "risky" kisses - no tongue, no open mouth, not long, lingering ones, not anywhere below the chin (though I do make fart kisses on his neck sometimes but that's more me being the goof I am, ruining completely sweet moments, than anything else), hands don't go anywhere they shouldn't. But above those "guidelines" we have to make sure that whatever we do together is honorable before God, which means we can't get aroused from what we do together. Even if we are seriously committed to getting married, we aren't yet. I'll lean my head on his shoulder and he'll put an arm around me, but I don't think we could spoon together without something happening to one of us. He's the most beautiful and attractive man I've ever met, I'd love to!... Someday. But him being so beautiful (his personality, character and his devotion to God) outweighs how physically attractive he is to me and I wouldn't want to produce a stumbling block for him in anyway.

/ramble.
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  #13  
Unread 30th July 2010, 09:18 PM
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I do not believe masturbation is wrong, at all. The story listed above isn't about masturbation, but rather about Onan's disobedience. He had sex, but pulled out of the woman before he ejaculated. So, it's not masturbation that's being referred to. Yes, lust is wrong. But it is entirely possibly to masturbate without lusting. It's not exactly easy, but it is possible. I masturbated before being married, and it indeed helped me a great deal. I masturbate now that I am married as well, and it helps to keep the fire going.

If you feel God doesn't want you to masturbate, I would say keep to that conviction. However, I do think it was wrong of you to tell your boyfriend to stop. That is between him and God, as there is nothing in the Bible that says masturbation is wrong at all.
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  #14  
Unread 30th July 2010, 10:48 PM
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Originally Posted by Created2Write View Post
I do not believe masturbation is wrong, at all. The story listed above isn't about masturbation, but rather about Onan's disobedience. He had sex, but pulled out of the woman before he ejaculated. So, it's not masturbation that's being referred to. Yes, lust is wrong. But it is entirely possibly to masturbate without lusting. It's not exactly easy, but it is possible. I masturbated before being married, and it indeed helped me a great deal. I masturbate now that I am married as well, and it helps to keep the fire going.

If you feel God doesn't want you to masturbate, I would say keep to that conviction. However, I do think it was wrong of you to tell your boyfriend to stop. That is between him and God, as there is nothing in the Bible that says masturbation is wrong at all.
I see what you mean. But, since masturbation is lust then isn't it wrong? Yes I told him not to do it, but i also told him to talk to his male friends at church about it. who knows. they may have also been in the same predicament. but this is something that's troubling him as well. not just me telling him to stop when he doesn't want to. he has actually stopped, but he's felling the urge to do it again, and i was telling him to refrain away from doing it.
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  #15  
Unread 30th July 2010, 10:52 PM
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Originally Posted by moreruthlessjezebel View Post
The Bible is fairly specific about not sleeping with a parent or animals or those of the same gender, but sort of silent on masturbation specifically. The story often sited against it about the man spilling his 'seed' on the ground is more about rebellion than lust, almost.

Judah got a wife for Er, his firstborn, and her name was Tamar. But Er, Judah's firstborn, was wicked in the LORD's sight; so the LORD put him to death. Then Judah said to Onan, "Lie with your brother's wife and fulfill your duty to her as a brother-in-law to produce offspring for your brother." But Onan knew that the offspring would not be his; so whenever he lay with his brother's wife, he spilled his semen on the ground to keep from producing offspring for his brother. What he did was wicked in the LORD's sight; so he put him to death also. - Genesis 38:6-10 [NIV]


Basically, he'd been told to carry on his brother's line with his wife, but instead of doing as he was told, he got all of the pleasure without the reward.

But lust is a pretty big part of masturbation (and others have already written down the verse for you). Actually, I'd say it's most of masturbation... You could, theoretically, try to do so without lust (as in, chemical arousal based on literally nothing but chemicals), you can also make sparks over dry grass, but just don't be surprised when a fire gets lit.

The Bible is the word of God, but I don't believe He ever quit speaking to us. I would definitely pray (maybe even with him) over it.

It's different for different people, I think. Some people don't kiss or hug or hold hands until they get married and others are a bit more liberal with showing physical affection before marriage. Older movies had specific guidelines they followed when it came to romantic scenes - no kiss longer than four seconds, three feet always on the ground, and so on. I've heard it preached that you shouldn't kiss before marriage because you could be kissing someone else's husband or wife. I think it's a serious conversation the two of you should talk about (and any other courting/dating couple).

We do hold hands, hug and kiss, but when we kiss it's not generally "risky" kisses - no tongue, no open mouth, not long, lingering ones, not anywhere below the chin (though I do make fart kisses on his neck sometimes but that's more me being the goof I am, ruining completely sweet moments, than anything else), hands don't go anywhere they shouldn't. But above those "guidelines" we have to make sure that whatever we do together is honorable before God, which means we can't get aroused from what we do together. Even if we are seriously committed to getting married, we aren't yet. I'll lean my head on his shoulder and he'll put an arm around me, but I don't think we could spoon together without something happening to one of us. He's the most beautiful and attractive man I've ever met, I'd love to!... Someday. But him being so beautiful (his personality, character and his devotion to God) outweighs how physically attractive he is to me and I wouldn't want to produce a stumbling block for him in anyway.

/ramble.
I told him that we need to calm things down in terms of being physical. because what we were finding was that he was becoming easily aroused (more so than I was) whenever we were snuggling in a certain way or spooning. so i told him we can't do it. he agreed. we still embrace with his arm around my shoulder and i lean my head on his chest. and that's fine. and we kiss, but no tongues as we both say it would be too weird. and no open mouths either. I think it's wonderful how you talk about your man
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  #16  
Unread 30th July 2010, 11:18 PM
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No, masturbation isn't lust. Lust does not require masturbation, hence, you CAN masturbate without lusting. They sometimes walk hand in hand, but by definition, are NOT the same thing. Lust is a sin, masturbation while lusting is a sin, masturbation WITHOUT lust, is NOT a sin.

Masturbation can be extremely helpful. My sister is almost thirty, and unmarried. She has never had sex, and has VERY strong desires to do so. She started having very graphic sex dreams which made her desires worse. I recommended masturbation, which she was against at first; she finally did it, and the dreams have gone away. The desire is still there, just not as loud and obnoxious as it was before.

Masturbation could easily help your boyfriend get past his completely normal urges.
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  #17  
Unread 31st July 2010, 11:55 AM
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I am solo sriptura. The Bible never says masturbation is a sin or wrong. To me to make a blanket statement that masturbation is wrong would be to add to the Word of God, which is a sin. I'm with those that find masturbation has helped them. To me masturbation is a good thing.

That leaves the question of lust. The Greek word in Mat 5 is used in the Bible of both good desires adn evils desires. Both Jesus and good angels are said to have "lusted" in the Bible. So are all sexual lusts, desires evil? Paul uses this Greek word when he is speaking of the 10 commandments where it says we aren't to covet. So we aren't to commit adultery and we aren't to covet an other man's wife, ie desire to commit adultery with her. I beleive Jesus was say, remember in Mat.5 Jesus' context was adultery, we aren't to look at a man's wife and covet her. Which I take to mean taker her away from her husband, not just sexually, but in general like to take away her effections from her husband and turn them toward himself.

So to masterbate with lust, covetousness, would be to fantasy about how to take a man's wife from him while masturbating.

That's my understanding of this topic. Hope it helps.

dayhiker

Last edited by dayhiker; 31st July 2010 at 11:59 AM. Reason: spelling
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  #18  
Unread 27th August 2010, 10:58 AM
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I don't believe masturbation is a sin. I think it can help those who do have urges and diminish them.
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  #19  
Unread 27th August 2010, 03:00 PM
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I don't think it diminishes the urges in the long run. I think it feeds them. Just as it's hard to stop having sex once you've started (and harder the more you've had sex) and relatively easy (though tough) to be abstinent if you've never had sex, it's harder to abstain from masturbation the more you masturbate.
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  #20  
Unread 27th August 2010, 05:28 PM
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Originally Posted by gzt View Post
I don't think it diminishes the urges in the long run. I think it feeds them. Just as it's hard to stop having sex once you've started (and harder the more you've had sex) and relatively easy (though tough) to be abstinent if you've never had sex, it's harder to abstain from masturbation the more you masturbate.
But this isn't so for everyone.

Drinking alcohol isn't a sin, but some people struggle with controlling themselves. Those people should probably abstain from drinking alcohol. But not everyone struggles with that. Same with masturbation. Some people, it actually helps them abstain from fornication and lust. Others, maybe it is more of a stumbling block. That does not mean it is a sin, or that everyone should avoid it.
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