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29th July 2010, 11:55 PM
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We Catholics are against abortion because a) We believe that at conception God creates a soul and b) We believe that only God may determine life and death. Both of these arguments rely on religious notions, and for that reason hold little sway with the atheist. The atheist can simply maintain that the fetus is "just a bunch of cells", and in their framework they seem to be a correct.
Is there any way to convince an atheist that abortion is wrong without converting them first? |
30th July 2010, 12:10 AM
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Reps: 1,934,064,730,311,203,328 (power: 1,934,064,730,311,255) | | | Atheists still believe it is wrong to kill other humans in cold blood. One then must attempt to demonstrate personhood of the fetus.
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Therefore if God gave to them the same gift as He gave to us also after believing in the Lord Jesus Christ, who was I that I could stand in God's way? -Acts 11:17 |
30th July 2010, 12:13 AM
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Reps: 10 (power: 0) | | | The problem is that a fetus isn't really a person unless you take into account the soul. |
30th July 2010, 12:28 AM
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Reps: 668,042,797,429,940,736 (power: 668,042,797,429,964) | | Originally Posted by Apposite  The problem is that a fetus isn't really a person unless you take into account the soul.
There is a good book that makes the case without religion: link.
I can sum up some of the argument from it tomorrow. I have to help a friend move so I need to go to sleep.
There are many arguments in the book, the main one is the definition of person hood.
Now for me, all of it is a reflection of the Natural Law written in our hearts by God. But the argument can be made without religion...although I strongly believe that once you begin to look at it a person will be open to God more.
There is a pro-life atheist website. Kind of strange at first, I agree.
But honest accurate science backs up the Truth that the fetus is life.
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If pregnancy presents a challenge, do we as a society rise to the challenge by dispensing with the child? And when a pregnancy comes at a difficult time, what is the worthier response? Do we surround mother and child with protection and love, or do we hold out to her the cold comfort of a trip to an abortionist? Where is our true character as a nation to be seen - let's ask ourselves this question: Where is our true character to be seen, in an adoptive home, or in an abortion clinic? Who are we? Who are we America? That question deserves an answer.
Bob Casey Sr.
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30th July 2010, 12:37 AM
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Reps: 305,387,769,917,928,320 (power: 0) | | Originally Posted by Apposite We Catholics are against abortion because a) We believe that at conception God creates a soul and b) We believe that only God may determine life and death. Both of these arguments rely on religious notions, and for that reason hold little sway with the atheist. The atheist can simply maintain that the fetus is "just a bunch of cells", and in their framework they seem to be a correct.
Is there any way to convince an atheist that abortion is wrong without converting them first?
That's not what the Church teaches. What she teaches is that human life begins at conception and that human beings have the right to life. Both of these teachings are within reason; it is only that Jesus has raised it to doctrine, just as He raised marriage to sacrament. Hence, one can use human reason to convince someone that abortion is the violation of human life. |
30th July 2010, 12:45 AM
| | Senior Member
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Reps: 64,439,783,919,437,592 (power: 0) | | Why engage an Athiest (or a Christian, Muslim or whatever) on the topic at all? In my experience, seldom are people's minds changed by the arguments of others - the examples of others play a bigger role. Want to convince an athiest that abortion is wrong? Adopt a few kids or donate your free time to working with orphans. Many pro-choicers mistakenly believe that abortion is the merciful choice because nobody wants these babies. Show them, through your actions, that you love and want these babies  |
30th July 2010, 01:10 AM
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Reps: 2,344,393,399,981,198 (power: 2,344,393,399,991) | | Originally Posted by EmbattledBunny Why engage an Athiest (or a Christian, Muslim or whatever) on the topic at all? In my experience, seldom are people's minds changed by the arguments of others - the examples of others play a bigger role. Want to convince an athiest that abortion is wrong? Adopt a few kids or donate your free time to working with orphans. Many pro-choicers mistakenly believe that abortion is the merciful choice because nobody wants these babies. Show them, through your actions, that you love and want these babies
Good one.
I also agree that one needs to realize that those 'clump of cells' are a person before they will ever consider abortion immoral.
But what I like to point out to people who use that 'argument' - is that he/she is 'just a clump of cells' too. And I'm just a clump of cells, and so is Betty and John and Fred. So where do we draw the line? In reality - that's what a person is. 'A clump of cells" that is ever transforming. We don't look the same as we did when we were born and in 50 years we won't look the same as we do now. So why is it immoral to destroy this clump of cells over here named Betty and not immoral to destroy the clump of cells in Betty's womb?  |
30th July 2010, 01:18 AM
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Reps: 64,439,783,919,437,592 (power: 0) | | Originally Posted by hsilgne
Good one.
I also agree that one needs to realize that those 'clump of cells' are a person before they will ever consider abortion immoral.
But what I like to point out to people who use that 'argument' - is that he/she is 'just a clump of cells' too. And I'm just a clump of cells, and so is Betty and John and Fred. So where do we draw the line? In reality - that's what a person is. 'A clump of cells" that is ever transforming. We don't look the same as we did when we were born and in 50 years we won't look the same as we do now. So why is it immoral to destroy this clump of cells over here named Betty and not immoral to destroy the clump of cells in Betty's womb?
Equally good! Although I've never encountered the "clump of cells" argument in real life (I've only seen it on TV, where people can say whatever they please without fear of immediate questioning), I know how I'll respond when and if I do! |
30th July 2010, 03:24 AM
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Reps: 11,289,937,379,717,696 (power: 11,289,937,379,719) | | | It's made by humans is going to turn into a human therefore a Fetus is a human.
The Cost of One Human Abortion is one Human Life.
Many of these lines ring and hold true. Make them aware that it is still a human and even if they can't afford it tell them about families willing to pay money for somebody to give them their child.
Theres many reasons why not to just need to show them what and #1 rule when dealing with atheists is never use scripture.
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30th July 2010, 10:08 AM
|  | Chewbacha
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Reps: 1,238,051,283,267,514,112 (power: 1,238,051,283,267,541) | | Originally Posted by scraparcs Atheists still believe it is wrong to kill other humans in cold blood. One then must attempt to demonstrate personhood of the fetus.
There is a significant minority of non-religious people who are pro-life. When I say pro-life I don't mean "I'm personally against abortion but I support a woman's right to choose." I mean actually pro-life. There was actually a thread in Ethics and Morality started by an atheist member here describing his pro-life stance. It wasn't as uh... "thorough" as the Catholic stance (rape was an allowed circumstance for abortion I think), but it was nowhere close to real pro-choice.
Abortion is morally dubious even when you don't throw religious-based morality into the mix-especially abortions of convenience. | | |
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