Christians and Halloween.

Beanieboy · #41 10th July 2010, 07:32 PM

When I was a kid, my very religious mother, who had a problem with me watching Dark Shadows, Ouija Boards, Tarot Cards, reading our horoscope, etc., had no problem with Halloween. And what was it to me? It was a fun time where you dressed up in some goofy costume and got a pillowcase full of candy. When I was too old to trick or treat in 5th or 6th grade, we would go the the annual JC's Haunted House, a real house that the organization would gut and create for charity that was amazingly scary. Why did we do it? Because we wanted to face our fears. We wanted to test our courage. And we knew that we weren't really in any danger, but it would feel like we were.

That is kind of what Halloween is about. We are facing our boogey men. We dress up as Vampires, the undead who feed on the living. We dress up as zombies, the living dead. And for those not wanting to be scary, it's one night when you can dress up in costume and be a little kid for a night. In Toronto, they close the street in the Gay Village, and thousands of people come out and just have a good time, take pictures with each other, dance, drink, and laugh.

Is that such a bad thing?

I feel for kids today. I watched Bewitched with not a bat of an eye. Kids today read Harry Potter, a long, long book that kids are actually interested in reading, far longer than any book I read at their age, and their parents are flying off the handle, thinking that Harry Potter is going to lead all of their kids to witchcraft and Satanism.

I got to get a pillowcase full of candy. Some parents insist that by trick or treating, the kids are actually worshipping the pagan god of the holiday, which they can't even identify.

I know of nonChristians who celebrate Christmas by exchanging gifts on Christmas morning. My atheists friends do. My Jewish friend did with other Christian or nonChristian friends. Were they all worshipping Jesus by exchanging the gifts? Most people would argue no.

Then why would trick or treating (getting free candy) really be worshipping some pagan god? Trick or treating isn't even part of the pagan ritual. It was created as a way of getting kids to ask for candy instead of a night of playing tricks.

It's too bad that so many Christians are insistent on taking the fun out of harmless traditions be overthinking them and overanalyzing them, especially when they were allowed to observe them themselves at their kids age.

mpok1519 · #42 11th July 2010, 04:48 AM

Originally Posted by talitha

Truth does not need a majority.

Yet I'm skeptical that you've eliminated all pagan rooted traditions from your life. You embrace some but demonize others.

You are free to think that.

I'd like to think I have to think that; I have to adhere tologic and rationale otherwise I might lose my sanity.

I never claimed to be objective.

My mistake; I was under the impression you had meant to make an objective statement.

I am not afraid of other cultures. I actually live cross-culturally. I simply know the truth.

you know the truth but are needless of objectivity? I'm confused...

"Let the dead bury their dead." -- Jesus

and within the context of that, it only relates to the topic by a small tangent; what do you think Jesus meant by that?

The last part of your post, mpok, about dressing up as pirates, etc., I'm guessing, is not really in response to me??

I'm just saying people have worse problems than celebating a holiday; such as believing celebrating a holiday is a problem.

talitha · #43 11th July 2010, 11:15 AM

Originally Posted by mpok1519

Yet I'm skeptical that you've eliminated all pagan rooted traditions from your life. You embrace some but demonize others.

How can you possibly know that?

I'd like to think I have to think that; I have to adhere tologic and rationale otherwise I might lose my sanity.

Actually there are two philosophies concerning where humans find truth. Until somewhere around the turn of the twentieth century, the philosophy that I embrace was accepted by the vast majority of people - that truth comes via revelation. Today most people think truth is only discovered via logic, ie: with proof and evidence. Proof and evidence have their place; I wouldn't have gotten very far in college without them. But when it comes to spiritual truth and spiritual realities, they must be revealed.

My mistake; I was under the impression you had meant to make an objective statement.

Nah, my mistake, I got my hackles up and threw a smart-alecky answer out there without thinking. I've been dealing with someone else in private messages.... not your concern. Of course the ultimate source of objective truth is Yahweh, and since I am expressing to the best of my finite understanding His perspective, in that since I am being objective -- though in specifics it is nearly impossible to be objective.

Do you have an irrational fear of other customs cultures and traditions that'd influence you to say judgemental things?

you know the truth but are needless of objectivity? I'm confused...

As Christians we should judge all things on the basis of whether they are pleasing to God or not. We have some basic guidelines in the Bible, but the Pharisees proved that while we focus on the trees, we lose sight of the forest - so we need the Holy Spirit. It is not bad or nonChristian to say that evil things are evil. In fact, it is nonChristian to let others think evil is good without being challenged.

It's not unchristlike to participate in traditions rooted within recognizing the dead, our ancestors.

"Let the dead bury their dead." -- Jesus

and within the context of that, it only relates to the topic by a small tangent; what do you think Jesus meant by that?

It's the only thing I could think of that Jesus said related to the dead (other than in the context of raising the dead), and if anything it runs counter to what you said. I question traditions rooted within recognizing the dead, including Memorial Day, etc. I certainly don't think those traditions belong in the church. We should be honoring Jesus, not dead people.

I'm just saying people have worse problems than celebating a holiday; such as believing celebrating a holiday is a problem.

Hmm.... celebating.... nah, won't go there. It's not having fun that I believe is wrong. Goodness, God made humans capable of smiles and laughter and dancing and jumping, and these things are great. It's opening spiritual doors that concerns me. I don't think nonChristians are at fault for celebrating Hallowe'en or whatever. I'm saying that it is something for Christians to avoid because of doors that it might open in the celebrator's life. We need to remember that by virtue of our status as Christians, we are at war with the Kingdom of Darkness. We should not by any means be complicit with it.

blessings
tal

DontTreadOnMike · #44 11th July 2010, 11:43 AM

Originally Posted by talitha

How can you possibly know that?

Do you paint eggs on easter? Forget that, do you CALL it easter (Ostara)? Even the name has pagan origins.

Do you refer to the days of the week by their names: Monday (moon's day), Tuesday (Tyr's day), Wednesday (Wotan or Odin's day), Thursday (Thor's day), Friday ([wash my mouth][wash my mouth][wash my mouth][wash my mouth]'s day), Saturday (Saturn's day), Sunday (Sun's day)?

Do you set up a Christmas tree? Do you have a Yule log? A Christmas ham? A wreath of holly? Mistletoe? Santa might be named after a Christian saint but he resembles many different pagan character mixed together including Thor. Even the date december 25th was chosen to coincide with pagan festivals.

Do you toast or even exchange gifts on new years eve at midnight?

There are a lot of things we do that come from pagan traditions, some of them religious, some of them mundane.

talitha · #45 11th July 2010, 11:57 AM

I don't like the word Easter, but I use it so people know what I'm talking about. Same with the days of the week. Interestingly, in Russian the word for Sunday is the word for resurrection. I love that. Even through 70 years of enforced atheism, anytime they wanted to talk about that day of the week, they had to mention the Resurrection.

The rest of the traditions you mentioned - I don't do.

blessings
tal

DontTreadOnMike · #46 11th July 2010, 12:07 PM

Originally Posted by talitha

I don't like the word Easter, but I use it so people know what I'm talking about. Same with the days of the week. Interestingly, in Russian the word for Sunday is the word for resurrection. I love that. Even through 70 years of enforced atheism, anytime they wanted to talk about that day of the week, they had to mention the Resurrection.

The rest of the traditions you mentioned - I don't do.

blessings
tal

Ah impressive. I don't do a christmas tree either but mostly because it's a pain. I'll never give up my Christmas ham though, NEVER!

Also, even though I don't have a christmas tree, it's my family's tradition to have a bonfire at the beach with our trees after Christmas so I go around the neighborhood collecting the trees that people leave on their curb for the garbage men hahaha

mpok1519 · #47 11th July 2010, 02:06 PM

Originally Posted by talitha

How can you possibly know that?

you use the word Easter correct? Just bc you don't like to doesn't mean you have eliminated all paganism from your life.

Actually there are two philosophies concerning where humans find truth. Until somewhere around the turn of the twentieth century, the philosophy that I embrace was accepted by the vast majority of people - that truth comes via revelation. Today most people think truth is only discovered via logic, ie: with proof and evidence. Proof and evidence have their place; I wouldn't have gotten very far in college without them. But when it comes to spiritual truth and spiritual realities, they must be revealed.

Revelation comes through logic; not this feeling in our heads that magically reveals life's mysteries. This is akin to delusion.

Nah, my mistake, I got my hackles up and threw a smart-alecky answer out there without thinking. I've been dealing with someone else in private messages.... not your concern. Of course the ultimate source of objective truth is Yahweh, and since I am expressing to the best of my finite understanding His perspective, in that since I am being objective -- though in specifics it is nearly impossible to be objective.

With a defeatest attitude, everything is near impossible.

As Christians we should judge all things on the basis of whether they are pleasing to God or not. We have some basic guidelines in the Bible, but the Pharisees proved that while we focus on the trees, we lose sight of the forest - so we need the Holy Spirit. It is not bad or nonChristian to say that evil things are evil. In fact, it is nonChristian to let others think evil is good without being challenged.

Some Christians believe having a judgemental attitude towards those who honor their dead parents is evil and to be challenged.

It's the only thing I could think of that Jesus said related to the dead (other than in the context of raising the dead), and if anything it runs counter to what you said. I question traditions rooted within recognizing the dead, including Memorial Day, etc. I certainly don't think those traditions belong in the church. We should be honoring Jesus, not dead people.

So Jesus wants all the honor for Himself and restricts us from paying homage to our ancestors? Wow; that's kinda crazy. If this were true FUNERALS would be unchristian!

Hmm.... celebating.... nah, won't go there. It's not having fun that I believe is wrong. Goodness, God made humans capable of smiles and laughter and dancing and jumping, and these things are great. It's opening spiritual doors that concerns me. I don't think nonChristians are at fault for celebrating Hallowe'en or whatever. I'm saying that it is something for Christians to avoid because of doors that it might open in the celebrator's life. We need to remember that by virtue of our status as Christians, we are at war with the Kingdom of Darkness. We should not by any means be complicit with it.

Some of us Christians feel apart of "war with the kingdom of darkness" includes the war on ignorance, irrationality, and intellectual dishonesty and disingenuous people.

talitha · #48 11th July 2010, 03:33 PM

Originally Posted by mpok1519

you use the word Easter correct? Just bc you don't like to doesn't mean you have eliminated all paganism from your life.

You got me - I sometimes utilize words with pagan etymological origins. sheesh.

Revelation comes through logic; not this feeling in our heads that magically reveals life's mysteries. This is akin to delusion.

Revelation does not come through logic - that's ridiculous. If it comes from logic, it's not revelation; it's just an intellectual accomplishment.

With a defeatest attitude, everything is near impossible.

Some Christians believe having a judgemental attitude towards those who honor their dead parents is evil and to be challenged.

I guess those Christians are free to have that opinion.

So Jesus wants all the honor for Himself and restricts us from paying homage to our ancestors? Wow; that's kinda crazy. If this were true FUNERALS would be unchristian!

It's my belief that a funeral should be to comfort the living, not to honor the dead. If we are giving glory to a human being, that is unchristian.

Some of us Christians feel apart of "war with the kingdom of darkness" includes the war on ignorance, irrationality, and intellectual dishonesty and disingenuous people.

Sadly, some Christians are spiritually asleep.

In Jesus
tal

thesolitaryone · #49 11th July 2010, 03:52 PM

Originally Posted by talitha

It's my belief that a funeral should be to comfort the living, not to honor the dead. If we are giving glory to a human being, that is unchristian.

Let me get this straight: you think it's unChristian to bolster a person's self-esteem? You think that all human beings should feel bad about themselves, and that making them feel better is wrong? I've never understood this view that some Christians have in which self-hatred is seen as a positive thing.

mpok1519 · #50 11th July 2010, 04:35 PM

Talitha; Well I suppose you're free to celebrate any holiday as you wish; I just think one would be foolish to hastily assume honoring the dead is a bad thing. I also find it strange how someone would feel guilty about honoring their dead grandmother. I just wonder how one could judge others for doing so and I also wonder how or why God would ever "reveal" this to people.

Just for the record you're calling people who honor their ancestors spiritually asleep. FYI. Anyone else see something a tad bit I dunno, wrong with that?